Question about homes (Sarasota, Port Charlotte, North Port: short sales, buy, wage)

[Carbondated]

Originally Posted by FLBob

So no I was not saying that being a renter is "good enough" those were your words. But there is nothing wrong with renting. I have family members that choose to rent. They can afford to purchase but choose not to. Many people choose to rent.

I never said there was anything wrong with renting, those are your words. It is acceptable if it is an option, as in the cases you mentioned. However, it should not be the only option for the younger generation.

Originally Posted by FLBob

A healthy housing market is one where about 60%-65% of the homes are owned as primary residences.

So it would be acceptable for you to have both houses on either side of you rented? Or perhaps nearly half of your cul de sac rentals owned by people who don't live in this country?

Originally Posted by FLBob

The economy depends on the investor. When people invest jobs are created.

You obviously ascribe to the old "trickle down" economics theory from the Reagan administration.
I ascribe to the Chicago School of economic reasoning that it is not the investor but the inventor that creates a healthy economy. Investors have short term monetary goals. Inventors, however, create long term jobs (manufacturers, etc.).

Originally Posted by FLBob

The rest of the homes are owned by investors who have made the business decision to become property owners in order to provide homes to people that choose not to own but instead rent.

The investors rationale for buying property is not to provide homes for those who want to rent. It is for their own financial profit. That sentence almost seems as if you are making it into a noble profession.

Originally Posted by FLBob

The investor has a longer time horizon, in most cases the investor is looking at cash flow not capital appreciation when making the investment decision.

An investor will stay in the market as long as it is profitable....much the same as the speculators. End of story.

[loves2read]

To an English teacher the terms INVESTOR and SPECULATOR contain and transmit different perceptions to the reader and as such (to me at least) one has a more perjorative/negative cast to it...
TO INVEST derived initially from the Medieval Latin meaning to clothe and mutated into to "invest" with the symbol of honor or office, to furnish with power or authority or to grant somone authority, and to endow with a quality--to infuse....

Even the second form of the verb --the one tied more directly to financial concerns--implies a certain personal connection...according to Webster's
Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online

there is a GIVING aspect to INVEST--a transfer of something good, powerful, and positive that promotes a beneficial cast to the term...being an investor implies not just taking from something but bringing something of value into the transaction...

TO SPECULATE on the other hand has somewhat of a sinister cast--it derives from Latin as well --speculatus from speculari and basically means to spy or to look out--..to review or think about, to examine

and the "money" aspect---to assume a business risk in hope of gain, to buy or sell in expectation of profiting from market fluctuation

it can also mean to take to be true on basis of insufficient evidence (theorize) or to be curious or doubtful about--(wonder)...

There is nothing in either type of verb/definitions of SPECULATE(OR) to give a positive cast--a speculator is basically someone who spys out opportunities that will be profitable to himself...sometimes without making detailed analysis for truth...there is a certain selfish leaning since self-interest is the prime directive--
There is nothing in this word that shows any "contribution" or "giving" on the part of the speculator...whereas the investor definition never refers to what is gained...whatever has been "invested" has had its worth raised/improved by the actions/contributions -- in fact there is no mention of any taking away or gaining a profit which is exactly what the speculator's end result is...

I just love language--and if you understand the difference in semantics between both words--I think you might agree that a speculator is a user--which is what I have seen acted out in the reality of the market place with the speculation in energy futures and commodities--same with the Hunts' attempt to corner the silver market decades ago...or the companies like Enron or the financials who created the savings and loan theft years ago and now the sub-prime crisis...
all take -- no give
whereas an investor first must give to create value/improvement before there is anything to profit from...
would that we were all investors in our economy, our country, our world...

[Janet2007]

From reading various posts on this forum. People are adviced to rent a property for 12 months or so before they commit themselves to buying. Also, people moving to the area, say they prefer to rent before buying a property. Again, to be sure they are happy in that particular area. If there are no rental properties available do people not bother and look somewhere else where they can rent first? The more people living in a town whether renting or buying surely bring more wealth to the town. If people move away because they cannot afford mortgages, taxes etc then does the town not die. Who is to say that people should commit themselves to buying a property when it may be cheaper to rent one. This is just what society 'brain washes' people into believing - that it is right to buy. But is it? In certain countries the average age for a first time buyer is mid 40's. People in these countries are not disciminated against because they are 'not buying' a property. In the UK it is only the last 2 - 3 generations that have bought their own property, as money became easier to borrow. Prior to this most people rented. I am a mortgage broker, but I would not recommend people on a tight budget to stretch themselves to uncomfortable financial situations 'just to buy their own property'. I believe there is more to life than working to pay off a mortgage. People need the freedom to make their own decisions, not to be forced into doing things because that is what society expects. Lets not be snobby about this. People renting property can have just as much respect for the property and community as people buying. It is all down to the individual - not whether they are buying or renting!
It seems certain people on this site argue and protest about people buying to rent. Is this jeolousy or don't want these undesirables who rent living next door to us? In this life we don't get everything we want (or don't want) Life goes on, so lets get on with it.

[Carbondated]

For those of you posters who are foreign, we have something over here called the "American Dream".
Here is a great New York Times article explaining it.:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE2D8143AF932A2575AC0A96E9482 60 (broken link)
We still wish the "American Dream" for our children, the next generation. It is a part of our culture and something that is being undermind by "investors".


Additionally, this area is flooded with houses for rent or houses for sale with option for rent. It has been that way since the market has turned. I said FLOODED with rental houses.
Why would residents welcome more rental properties?
The stability of a neighborhood is not increased by landlords who live 2000 miles away or in Europe. There has been an increase in the number of Meth labs, Marijuana grow houses, etc. in Venice, North Port, Englewood because of these absentee landlords. Statistically, areas that have seen a large number of rental properties also see a marked increase in crime. Please, if you have statistics to claim that an area with a large number of rental properties owned by absentee landlords is good for the crime rate or boosts property values....please provide it.


Janet2007- Of course we don't get everything we want in life. You get rep points for stating the obvious!
However, accepting mediocrity is a recipe for failure.
I have lived here in Venice for 20+ years and want better for my community. And as an active resident, I know what is happening in my community and know more about it than a lot of people. I would even go as far as saying, I know what is better for my community than someone who doesn't live here.

No jealousy here dear....just a concerned citizen.

[FLBob]

Carbondated- I agree with you that this area saw rampant speculation. As a result we had way to many homes built is 2005 - 2006. The homes were built to flip, but the retail buyer was not out there buying.
When I read about developers looking for zoning changes to increase densities on the land between Venice and North Port I just shake my head. North Port and most of Charlotte County have sooo many undeveloped residential building lots, that we have decades of supply.
Many of the working families in our area depend on construction and construction has nearly stopped.
The article on vulture investing that I referenced in a prior post states clearly that our area is not an area where the big money investors will come. Mainly because of the unemployment rate. Until our area solves the jobs issue, we will be over built for several years to come.
Locally we are in a catch-22 we need jobs, but the economy is construction based and we overbuilt.
Retirement and tourism are now the economic drivers. I don't know how to bring non-construction industry to our area, but would love to hear ideas.

[loves2read]

so much of the blame for the overbuilding and ultimate lowering of property values needs to be laid at the table of local city/county councils who were greedy at what they might get (and don't tell me they did not get something) from development deals...

anyone who lives in an area long enough to be elected to a city council or sit on a planning board is not someone who is oblivious to what is going on in that area...they know exactly the types of jobs people have, the types of businesses in their area...

those people gave the OK and basically rolled over and played with the developers who promised them the moon and delivered nada...how much better off they would have left their city/county if they had said NO--we don't need another housing development/condo/strip mall---
reasonable growth that had worked for years to give a somewhat stable economic foundation went out the window...until people were screaming for new housing based on the fact that there was NONE ...there should have been no new building...

companies that do projections for job growth and need for housing are such liars most of the time--they see who is paying for the info and what they want to hear and give it to them...

we are seeing the same thing in my local area in TX in towns where there is raw acreage--tract developments going in that just concrete over the land, offer poor drainage, little esthetic value, streets that will need repaving at tax-payers' expense in 3 years, homes that don't sell and create lower home values that lower the city's tax base...
and this area is supposed to have a strong economy...

Frankly what sectors of the economy do you see expanding --- there is no way that retail sales is going to be going gangbusters, banks are certainly over built in FL and probably lots of other places and we are going to see one bank eating another pretty soon because the regional banks are starting to feel the pinch from foreclosures and business closings...
FL is big on some farming but that is not type of business that creates middle class jobs--frankly it brings in more transient, lower paying ones...
You probably have people who would love to work but can they afford to work for min wage that something like a call center would pay
Technology is mainly geared to military contractors from what I see on Career Builder so if the war in Iraq is shut down those jobs could be impacted as well...
Pharmaceuticals are a sector business that could probably be expanded if there is company that is looking to build plant capacity--
Mfg for products related to solar/water conservation--since those might find a strong local and national market

[FLBob]

Loves2read - You are so right, many areas of Florida have suffered from rampant speculation and over building. The pristine world that many aspired to eventfully call home is in trouble.
Many of our elected officials have let us down. However the Juggernaut of big money and skilled land use attorneys do make it difficult for those that have chosen to serve the local community. Most are not career politician and I think while having good intentions many are overwhelmed.
For a good discussion on growth and land use issues in Florida see the Florida State (FSU) article on "Pain in Paradise".

[meltinjohn]

To those who mention absentee landlords. Those people growing pot, good for them!
We need to live free and not have as much order. Let everyone run wild and then those perfect suburban settings can turn into everyone doing what they want. As long as no physical harm is done and ppl overall do their thing. The too good to be true looking neighborhoods got to go imo.

[Oobie119]

Look at it this way-- Parrish is a new community-- chances are the house she bought was not a foreclosure. The area is new, and the homes are going for much cheaper than average areas. Id say the average home in Parrish goes for around 210. Compare Parrish homes to homes in Sarasota and you can surely get more for your money because it's so new. Also, if it was a forecloser chances are the original price was way high. I would say a foreclosure in Parrish would be around 170.. I could be wrong, but that's my input : )

[loves2read]

was looking on line last night and saw a web page listing short sales/foreclosures in the Sarasota/Venice/North Port/ Port Charlotte area...
SO MANY HOMES...they all look so much alike that it was like going through the automat food-line...
where are all the people that will buy these homes when there are so few JOBS in this area...

that is what needs to be developed--businesses with jobs that pay a decent wage to bring people into this area...

why is FL not doing more with solar technology and wind farms in the Gulf--are environmentalists preventing wind farms because of birds' flight patterns--I know that is a legitimate concern but birds are not stupid...they can adapt...