Traffic tickets from cameras in Seattle and big brother

[Pretzelogik]

If EVERYONE tells them to get lost then where would they be. Unity is Strength and Division is Weakness.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by usernametaken

And here I have to make a confession...

I got a driving license in Ohio fairly recently, and I have not converted it to a Washington license even though I have lived here for 4 months. I hated the idea of giving more money to the government again after getting a new driving license, even if its a different state we are talking about here.

My one concern is that if I go to court, they will find that out. It seems like they can't charge me for another offense at the court, but I am still feeling a bit guilty and foolish for not changing my license sooner. If they notice that, they might not waive this ticket thinking that I am a serial law violater.

Be aware the fines for out of state plates and license, even if valid, can exceed $500. Don't get caught.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by usernametaken

This program was in Ohio so there is a state income tax there, and the accountant was a Libertarian and not a Republican. He made sense to me and you should stop listening to Communist propaganda yourself.

Last year I paid a little over 25 percent in total income taxes (federal + state + local/city + social security + medicare), and I am middle class in Ohio. Then you add say 8 percent sales taxes on everyday purchases. Then you add 5 percent in property taxes. Then you add at least 10 percent of your phone bill and other utility bills that entails all kinds of government fees besides sales tax. Then you add all the road tolls you pay. Then you add all the airport government fees if you ever travel (much more than just sales tax). Then you add what corporations charge you in excess that they would not if they only had to pay income tax. Then you add the high cost of gasoline due to taxes, capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes etc... And of course car/boat/plane license renewal and license plate renewal taxes and fees. Maybe you should also add camera-based traffic ticket "taxes".

I could go on...but this accountant did an insane amount of research and he was on for an hour and gave many more examples besides the ones I wrote above. It was eye opening, and at the same time not surprising. Remember that he is including direct taxes (main scam from the government) as well as indirect taxes/fees (an even more flagrant but less significant in value scam). His assumption was also that you will not get social security till you are 75 or something like that, if at all. So you could argue with him that the social security tax is just delayed gratification and not exactly a tax. I think its a tax.

Anyway, you are not very good at Math or a cheater if you only come up with your low figures. If you are a tax cheater -- CONGRATULATIONS!! That's what I wish everyone did. In fact, based on the people I have talked in the malls and bars and libraries since coming to Seattle, a majority of people are cheating on their taxes. e.g., not declaring tips, not declaring money earned from a side job doing carpentry, not declaring income from online sales etc... I have been doing contract work since moving to Seattle, and someone else who does the same told me that all contract workers he knows declare expenses above and beyond what they are in reality.

I am sure there a minority of people who are truly ethical about paying taxes even when given foolproof ways to cheat, but if you use logic instead of emotion, the tax abiders are the biggest sinners.

Think about all the people killed in Iraq and Afghanistan using your tax dollars? In Cleveland, they caught government workers and higher up officials at bars during work hours, not paying at parking meters, and for humor, my former local mayor is more qualified for this kind of stuff than for the job he got hired for:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQu2fg0ybIw

Communist propaganda. LMAO.

[M3 Mitch]

If one does not want to fight the ticket themselves, go to NMA's website, they have attorney referrals, there is one in Seattle who is quite good and costs little more than or even less than the ticket.

[jenlion]

These cameras are INSANE. They've just added them in Redmond. The new one at Union Hill and Avondale is click-clicking all day long -- I've seen dozens snapped now, and only one a true red-light runner. The rest were ALL safely turning right.

That ridiculous one at Bel-Red and 148th is INSANE. It's dangerous! The first time I saw that one, it was dark, I was turning left on an arrow, while someone turned right (protected by me). Flash! Completely blinded me. Nearly ran off the road. Another time, it flashed me turning right on GREEN. Never got that ticket, but geeze. I have a friend that recently got five tickets through that intersection at once. Had no idea they were doing anything wrong. Needs to GO. That light flashes all day long!

I emailed the Redmond commander setting up this stupid-ass program. It's such incredible bull****.

In TX, I got nailed by one after a yellow light that was barely-there. Turns out that that city had been ****ing with their yellow light times -- sometimes 4 seconds, sometimes 1.5 seconds. Unreal. That kicked off MY learning about this system that I'd never cared about before.

Yes, these lights dramatically increase rear-end accidents. More property damage, more pain and suffering. More neck and back pain. Plenty of money for the city. They also slightly decrease fatal accidents -- slightly fewer t-bone high-speed collisions. However, increasing the yellow time by ONE SECOND, or going to an all-way-red-light for ONE SECOND, decreases fatalities even more. But who is doing that? NOBODY.

City of Houston voted the cameras out. A judge ordered them back in afterward.

F'd. UP.

Oh, and I had no idea about the three-second rule. That's insane! I knew about stopping at the white line (that is usually completely erased over time, and is far too back from the intersection for you to be able to see oncoming traffic); I thought that was why they were snapping all the safe right-turning-drivers and ticketing them.

[Pickles2012]

OMG, I can't believe you people roll over like worms and pay these things. There is not one thing legal about these cameras.

I have got three of these in the last two years. The cameras are not allowed "by state law" to photograph the drivers face. Since there is NO evidence of who the driver of the car at the time of the photo, my testimony whatever it is, becomes fact. A camera can't testify or authenticate because they can't be cross examined.

"Your honor, my car was in the shop that day and I do not know who was driving my car, but it was not myself."

As a consequence of the circumstances at the time of the hearing, my testimony being uncontroverted, becomes a record of fact. Case dismissed so quickly, I have no time to get comfortable in my seat.

I hate giving money to our government that is so lazy they can't hire a policeman but would rather give 50% of that ticket to a company in Arizona called "Traffic Solutions".

Screw that.

[ShrikeArghast]

They're actually talking about getting rid of these things in the Pheonix area. It turns out that they take photos in error a good deal of the time, and when people come in to fight the tickets, it winds up costing the cities money, rather than generating it. The only purpose of these cameras is to produce income -- that's it. They don't make the world safer; they don't change habits; and they're absolutely indiscriminate in the heads they take.

[evergraystate]

LA turned OFF its red light cameras after the people realized that the fines were 'optional' and they became revenue negative. These things have nothing to do with traffic safety. Its all about $$$.

There currently are about 65,000 outstanding unpaid tickets, Councilman Mitchell Englander said.

Council members blamed the losses on the refusal of the Los Angeles County Superior Court to force drivers to pay up.

"The courts do not process, the courts do not hold people responsible," Zine said.

Drivers who sign moving-violation citations issued on the scene by police officers promise to deal with the ticket, but the photo tickets were mailed to the registered owner of the vehicle caught on camera. Those owners never made such a promise and might not have been behind the wheel when the photo was taken.

Los Angeles Red Light Cameras To Shut Off

[valthenya]

they turned off the speeding cameras on the highways but the ones in the cities are still going full force in phoenix. red light cameras in phoenix but they have mobile ones in paradise valley and scottsdale.. PV hides them but scottsdale puts them in the open which i think is more productive to getting people to follow the speed limit

[AmFest]

Originally Posted by usernametaken

Well I got the fine reduced from $124 to $111 when I appealed by mail. I chose the option where I admit guilt, but still appeal the fine.

Just read this today:

Bellevue red light cameras issued some 23,000 tickets in 2010 | NWCN.com | NWCN - News

23,000 times say an average revenue of $100 per ticket after appeals and fine reductions like mine = $2.3 million. What pisses me off the most is that the camera that ticketed me is the most prolific one and not even near an elementary school.

How does admitting guilt but still appealing the fine work? Would that mean you can no longer dispute that you violated the laws?