Anybody noticing a sharp spike in gas prices in the last few days?

[jm31828]

Originally Posted by MichaelinWA

I saw that the Seattle Times finally got up with this thread

Drivers fill up with pain as state gas prices soar | Business & Technology | The Seattle Times

Regular self-serve gasoline in Washington was selling Monday for an average $4.20 — more than 47 cents higher than the national average, according to the AAA auto club.

Thanks for the link! I see King5's website finally had a story on it today. It's shocking that many of our stations are a dollar more per gallon right now than some of the cheapest areas in the country! It's just insane that oil companies choose this time of year- supposedly their highest demand time- to shut down refineries for maintenance.

[RVD90277]

yeah that is pretty expensive.

unfortunately, my local gas station down here in SoCal this morning is pretty expensive. i use premium gas so it's gonna hit $5 pretty soon. does gas usually go up in the summer up in Seattle like it does down here?

$4.93 this morning.

[mrman78]

Well, once those refineries get back on line it should go down a bit. I was already prepared to pay a lot more for gas here, so I'm just dealing with it lol!

I also drive a fraction of what I did in Texas, so I'm still paying less in gas overall.

[jm31828]

As an example of how bad it is now, normally our gas is always 20 cents higher than what my dad pays down in Tampa, Florida. Today he said gas in most areas around him is $3.47-- while many stations around here are $4.39! unbelievable that we can be almost a full dollar higher now, and their prices are still coming down, a few cents every few days. We have a LOT of dropping to do once those refineries come back on line to get back to our "normal" range of being only 20 cents or so higher than these other places.

[Freebird2007]

Originally Posted by SitoUK

Hasn't got anything to do with refineries shutting down or other local events, it's all global politics and the fact that there is more and more global demand for more and more difficult to extract oil. Doesn't help that we're at the mercy of the oil companies who don't need a reason to push the price up if they feel like it.

actually, this spike is due to refineries (ie fire in Blaine)

don't forget, we also supply a lot of Canadians with gas too.

[jm31828]

So the Cherry Point refinery is back up and running at full capacity as of today-- it will be interesting to see if our prices drop down to where they should be now over the next few days/weeks or if the oil companies will just come up with more excuses for keeping them so much higher than the rest of the country. Interestingly, oil is in a freefall on the market- we are paying more now than we were when oil was at $110 on the stock market, as of today it's down to $88 and continuing to fall. Everyone else in the country may soon be looking at prices falling closer to $3.25 per gallon.

[Xanathos]

I'm a fairly staunch libertarian, but the reality here is that government needs to step in and do something about this. I'm not talking about regulating prices or stopping speculators or any of that other talking point BS that political sheep spew out. I'm talking about refining capacity.

It's well-documented that the problem with fuel prices in the US today isn't the price of a barrel of oil or low supply or any of that stuff. We've got tankers full of oil that just hang out in the ocean because we have nowhere to put all the stuff. And, as mentioned, the price of crude is down into the 80's in terms of price - yet fuel prices are at a higher level now than they were when oil was $140 a barrel. The issue is refining capacity. There are less than 150 refineries in the entire country - many of them small. A new one hasn't been built since 1976. Which means that one has not gone up in my lifetime. They rarely run at full capacity, and routinely have to get taken down for maintenance, which causes spikes. In short, there aren't enough of them, they aren't big enough, and they aren't being run at optimal efficiency. If the loss of one facility can have such a dramatic effect on the price of fuel, then the problem is there aren't enough facilities.

The problem is, this is exactly what the oil companies want. They KNOW this is the reason for high fuel prices, and they refuse to build any more. Not a one of them has any plans to build even one right now. A couple of years back, Shell arbitrarily closed a couple of them just because they felt like it - they weren't broken down or in need of anything, Shell just didn't want them operational anymore.

So if the problem is a lack of refining capacity to meet demand, and the private sector does not want to increase capacity to meet demand, then, loathe though I am to say it, the government needs to build some refineries to increase capacity and create a nationalized fuel company that will directly compete with the private sector in order to nudge the oil companies into ceasing their practice of creating artificial choke points and faux supply issues.

[jm31828]

Originally Posted by Xanathos

I'm a fairly staunch libertarian, but the reality here is that government needs to step in and do something about this. I'm not talking about regulating prices or stopping speculators or any of that other talking point BS that political sheep spew out. I'm talking about refining capacity.

It's well-documented that the problem with fuel prices in the US today isn't the price of a barrel of oil or low supply or any of that stuff. We've got tankers full of oil that just hang out in the ocean because we have nowhere to put all the stuff. And, as mentioned, the price of crude is down into the 80's in terms of price - yet fuel prices are at a higher level now than they were when oil was $140 a barrel. The issue is refining capacity. There are less than 150 refineries in the entire country - many of them small. A new one hasn't been built since 1976. Which means that one has not gone up in my lifetime. They rarely run at full capacity, and routinely have to get taken down for maintenance, which causes spikes. In short, there aren't enough of them, they aren't big enough, and they aren't being run at optimal efficiency. If the loss of one facility can have such a dramatic effect on the price of fuel, then the problem is there aren't enough facilities.

The problem is, this is exactly what the oil companies want. They KNOW this is the reason for high fuel prices, and they refuse to build any more. Not a one of them has any plans to build even one right now. A couple of years back, Shell arbitrarily closed a couple of them just because they felt like it - they weren't broken down or in need of anything, Shell just didn't want them operational anymore.

So if the problem is a lack of refining capacity to meet demand, and the private sector does not want to increase capacity to meet demand, then, loathe though I am to say it, the government needs to build some refineries to increase capacity and create a nationalized fuel company that will directly compete with the private sector in order to nudge the oil companies into ceasing their practice of creating artificial choke points and faux supply issues.

I agree 100%! Too bad nobody in power has the guts to stand up to the oil companies. Perfect example of what you are saying is what we've been going through out here- one or two hiccups in local refining capacity and suddenly we're paying almost $1 per gallon more than the national average.

[mrman78]

Originally Posted by Xanathos

The problem is, this is exactly what the oil companies want. They KNOW this is the reason for high fuel prices, and they refuse to build any more. Not a one of them has any plans to build even one right now. A couple of years back, Shell arbitrarily closed a couple of them just because they felt like it - they weren't broken down or in need of anything, Shell just didn't want them operational anymore.

So if the problem is a lack of refining capacity to meet demand, and the private sector does not want to increase capacity to meet demand, then, loathe though I am to say it, the government needs to build some refineries to increase capacity and create a nationalized fuel company that will directly compete with the private sector in order to nudge the oil companies into ceasing their practice of creating artificial choke points and faux supply issues.

Having worked in the oil industry the past six and a half years, and having finally gotten out, I can tell you that it isn't necessarily that ALL oil companies don't want to build more refineries, it's that the government and communities have enacted policies to prevent them being built in many places - especially since the BP oil spill. People just don't want them to be built near them, but continue to complain low refinery production. It's like one of those vicious cycles. Obviously they have to be built somewhere. However, on the flip-side, there are some oil companies who don't want them built so not to saturate the market and keep their profits high. I'm all for the environment and keeping things green, but there becomes a point where people need to realise that what they want and what they need are a fine line.

Anyway, there are obviously still other things involved and I'm personally glad I'm out of that sketchy business.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by Xanathos

I'm a fairly staunch libertarian, but the reality here is that government needs to step in and do something about this.

I'm in favor of this as well, but for alternative fuel sources.

The mass majority of our oil purchases goes directly to making the Middle East wealthier and wealthier.

If we could have another fuel source. Maybe something that runs on corn oil or something, than we'd be enriching American farmers, and than create corn oil stations instead.

I don't know how unrealistic that particular thing is, and I'm not expert. But oil is a finite product that will not be around forever. Sooner or later, we're absolutely going to have to rely on other fuel sources.

The sooner AMERICA initiates, this, and makes sure AMERICA is producing something non-oil but fuel-related, the better!