Plastic bag ban has suprisingly lots of opponents. (Seattle, Pacific: how much, transfer)

[Inkpoe]

This wasn't put before the Seattle voters (they did not pass the Plastic ban in 2009-- where they would've charged those bags 20 cents instead instead of the 5 cents they're going now). The Seattle City Council set this up themselves and IIRC, there were people that did try to reverse it-- but it didn't pan out. Just another in a long line of the City Council not really listening to the majority of their constituents.

Originally Posted by backdrifter

This I can agree with 100%. Education and awareness is the best tool for combatting a huge array of social, environmental, and other problems. Unfortunately we don't deeply respect or invest nearly enough in education in this country, generally speaking. I would rather people make informed decisions than fall victim to social engineering, even if it is for good causes.

That said, I am neutral on the bag ban. I am one of the minority that does reuse them for garbage liners and doggy duty, but a lot of times it's easy to forget my reusable bag if I don't have that incentive. Paper bags are free in Portland, so there was no real incentive to switch to reusable for a lot of people when plastic was eliminated. Although I did see a huge increase in reusable bag usage when I was a checker after they were eliminated.

The big issue I have with plastic is the effect on wildlife, especially marine life. Also it's not just an issue of gumming up WM's machines. As I understand it, plastic bags (and plastic lids too--the flat kind that can get mixed in with paper) can and do ruin entire batches of recyclable materials when they get mixed in. Perhaps that isn't as big of an issue now as it used to be, but I don't feel like looking into it at the moment.

I generally prefer the carrot to the stick, but I think if they're following this model they should at least charge more for the paper bags to incentivize reusable bags more than they are. Charging only 5¢ per bag is nothing for a lot of people. I have a couple reusables that I use that are sealable and do not leak (similar to plastic) and they're great. I also wash mine regularly to prevent mold and bacteria growth (gross for me and the cashier).

Pat yourself on the back, greenwashers of Seattle (not all of Seattle, mind you). I hope you feel a little less guilty about leading such horribly consumptive and environmentally destructive lives.

Reduce, reduce some more, reuse, and reuse again and again. As a last resort, recycle. We should all make that our personal mantra. But, again, it should be an informed choice, for best results--not forced down people's throats.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

Why would different states need different approaches? Politics?

Do to different populations. CA is a state of almost 40 million. That's more than all but 34 countries in the world. The more people, the more regulations would be necessary although there are those who wouldn't agree. WA state has just under 7 million. The SF Bay Area alone has about 7.5 million or so. There's no way a one size fits all solution can work in two places with such huge population differences. Yes they require different political approaches.

[MsAnnThrope]

They've been "banned" for years where I live.

Most people have about a thousand green bags because it takes a while to remember to bring them with you lol.

Once you get used to it, it's great. If you buy groceries for any size of family you are soon drowned in the plastic ones...you can only use so many.

They aren't "banned" altogether - you can still buy them at the checkout but they are no longer free. Obviously you can still buy rolls of them in the supermarket too.

So the "ban" is not exactly a ban.

[backdrifter]

Originally Posted by Inkpoe

This wasn't put before the Seattle voters (they did not pass the Plastic ban in 2009-- where they would've charged those bags 20 cents instead instead of the 5 cents they're going now). The Seattle City Council set this up themselves and IIRC, there were people that did try to reverse it-- but it didn't pan out. Just another in a long line of the City Council not really listening to the majority of their constituents.

Oh, yes, I know. The city council are the self-congratulatory greenwashers I speak of. The mayor too. He's about as bad as Sam Adams!

[Ultrarunner]

The biggest drawback to the corn based biodegradable bags other than they cost a little more is when they are mixed with the standard single use bags on the way to recycling... since they are made from different materials they cannot be recycled together and therein lies a big problem...

There was some experimentation making all bags from the same base a specific color to help recycling sorting...

[hussar1683]

Paper bags also lead to trees being cut down.

Yeah some people are poor & have trouble paying for things.

I don't get the left wing. So often the left wing proposes a whole bunch of idealistic agendas to promote which often counter act each other.

Is your biggest left wing concern poor people or the enviroment?

Because when you go for the enviroment too much you are hurting poor people.

Left wingers have these big ideas to put a tax on fatty & sugary foods.

That will hurt the poor too.

It is like Left wingers come up with all of these big ideas which often go against their other ideas.

Oh of course Left wing agendas may hurt the poor.
the Left wing solution is just tax more. We will support the poor through taxing more to give them more even if our policies concerning the enviroment hurt the poor.

NVM taxation actually does hurt the poor.

Left wingers then have the big idea of tax the corporations more! They are not people obviously.

Well of course Corporations just raise prices to pay for this tax & that hurts the poor.

What is with Left wingers saying women should be free to abort babies & then oh well you shouldn't have the freedom to have plastic bags or smoke in resturants.
WTF?
Then Left wingers often say oh well you are wrong & sexist for telling women not to have an abortion but you are also wrong & ignorant for thinking we shouldn't ban plastic bags.

Yeah like killing a potential life in abortion is = to a bag.

Of course I don't deny Conservatives can be hypocrites too as many want legal guns but illlegal drugs & illegal abortion.

Putting illegal abortions into the same category as banning plastic bags is a whole different level.

As a Libertarian I think most of you are insecure Moderator cut: very rude who feel you are entitled to tell people what to do & what they can't do.

It is pathetic that you Moderator cut: very rude are so insecure you want government to tell you what you can't & can't do with such ridiculous things.
Granted you shouldn't have the right to murder or rape someone.

Let people have their plastic bags, smoking in resturants, guns, abortions, drugs, prostitutes etc etc.

Quit being control freak Moderator cut: very rude

[rainforest338]

When figuring out the footprint of the corn based bags, I'd also consider the amount of petroleum needed to grow/fertilize/harvest/process that corn. There have been a few things touted as green that aren't in the big scheme.
I think Bainbridge Island and Port Townsend have banned plastic bags, now too.

[Gentoo]

Let people have their plastic bags

No, people aren't the only life on this planet. How arrogant can we be?

smoking in resturants

No, those who don't smoke shouldn't be forced to breath that crap.

guns

Agree somewhat. Gun control laws are not fair. The hobbyists aren't the ones committing crimes with them. This is one area that one size fits all mentality I mentioned earlier isn't working.

abortions, drugs, prostitutes

Yes, yes and yes.

[la_fuerza]

Originally Posted by MsAnnThrope

They've been "banned" for years where I live.

Most people have about a thousand green bags because it takes a while to remember to bring them with you lol.

Once you get used to it, it's great. If you buy groceries for any size of family you are soon drowned in the plastic ones...you can only use so many.

They aren't "banned" altogether - you can still buy them at the checkout but they are no longer free. Obviously you can still buy rolls of them in the supermarket too.

So the "ban" is not exactly a ban.

My wife and I just got back from a long vacation in Australia. It's a much more progressive country in regards to the environment and in so many other ways.

We saw several people carrying the green bags around Sydney. In fact one of our souveniers was a green Cole's grocery bag! We use it when we're shopping here in Seattle, I'm waiting for it to get noticed by an Aussie!

[evergraystate]

Originally Posted by Inkpoe

Just another in a long line of the City Council not really listening to the majority of their constituents.

Good! The vast majority of their constituents are dim.