Seattle Freeze is real, according to my BC instructor (to buy, live in)
Seattle areaSeattle and King County Suburbs
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Definitely the most unfriendly city I have ever lived in. I remember my first summer here I was outside on a hot day, as well as some of my neighbors just sitting around and playing with their kids/dogs. In any case, I was BBQ some burgers just relaxing, asked a few of them if they wanted to come over and have a burger and be...you know...neighborly; I swear they looked at me as if I just kicked a baby. "Uh no we don't really have time for that." Wow, didn't know Sunday evenings were so busy for everyone.
Oh well, I'm only going to be here a little longer then I am moving back to Honolulu, that day can't come soon enough! Wait, I know I know, I don't "deserve" to live here blah blah (insert generic, defensive Seattleite knee-jerk response here).
Definitely the most unfriendly city I have ever lived in. I remember my first summer here I was outside on a hot day, as well as some of my neighbors just sitting around and playing with their kids/dogs. In any case, I was BBQ some burgers just relaxing, asked a few of them if they wanted to come over and have a burger and be...you know...neighborly; I swear they looked at me as if I just kicked a baby. "Uh no we don't really have time for that." Wow, didn't know Sunday evenings were so busy for everyone.
Oh well, I'm only going to be here a little longer then I am moving back to Honolulu, that day can't come soon enough! Wait, I know I know, I don't "deserve" to live here blah blah (insert generic, defensive Seattleite knee-jerk response here).
AHAHAHAH ... Welcome to the NOrthwest, ThatGuy..
I grown up here (or lived for many years) and will say that is pretty common in Middle Class neighborhoods. I have lived in some low-end areas in Oregon where people were more low-class rednecky and friendly and neighborly. However, on average, people in the Northwest think if you are being so friendly, it means you have some type of bad intentions and want to take advantage of them. Or, it may just be that you are interfering with their precious privacy they hold so sacred. People generally think anyone outside their husband/wife, kids and few close circle of work buddies or long-term friends with suspicion and contempt. Also, people are very anti-social and tend to stick to their routines. I've been watching my neighbors all around me. They never have friends over, they never have parties or get-togethers. They are always home almost every night and their televisions are always on. It just amazes me how they seem so stuck to doing the same thing over and over and how they never socialize with people in their homes. In some ways this is good, as I don't have to worry about loud get-togethers or parties. I think in Washington a person's house is his cave and he will club you if you try to approach it. This isn't Mayberry in Dixie, where the neighbors greet you with cherry pie. On a bright note, you don't get crosses burned on your lawn for attending the wrong church or being not of their religion either.
Also, most of my neighbors never look at me or smile. They just try to pretend I don't exist. One of my neighbors has a permanent angry look on his face and I am afraid to even talk to him. He came to my door to give me mail one day they delivered to his house by mistake. He didn't introduce himself or anything, just said here's your mail, they sent it to my house. As he was turning away I introduced myself and extended my hand.. He shook it quick and left like I was wasting his time. It felt so warm and welcoming.
Last edited by RotseCherut; 04-16-2013 at 08:37 PM..
Oh, I live in Issaquah (BC=Bellevue College). I definitely think that there is something "chilly" about Seattle, but I question the logic my instructor is using. Most of the people I've met in these past two years are also transplants, including a minority of Asians and Scandinavians, and yet I still get the chill. I told her I thought it had more to do with the academic and progressive values that permeate the area. She said, that's possible, but those two qualities are also found in SF and Boston, and people from those communities report that they don't have the chill that we do.
Berkeley and San Francisco have that academic and progressive aspect, but there's no chill there. What there is a lot of is sun, and beach. A different ambience altogether.
Definitely the most unfriendly city I have ever lived in. I remember my first summer here I was outside on a hot day, as well as some of my neighbors just sitting around and playing with their kids/dogs. In any case, I was BBQ some burgers just relaxing, asked a few of them if they wanted to come over and have a burger and be...you know...neighborly; I swear they looked at me as if I just kicked a baby. "Uh no we don't really have time for that." Wow, didn't know Sunday evenings were so busy for everyone.
I had similar experiences whenever I'd try to chat with people in the grocery or post office line, just to be neighborly and pass the time. They acted as if I were imposing on them, or had invaded their privacy. It never stopped me from being friendly, though. I don't know any other way to be, that's how most people are in the Bay Area, where I'm from, so I grew up with that. I can't bottle it up. Their loss.
Part of it is just the types of cultures that are prevalent (or rather, not prevalent) in Seattle vs. NYC. Seattle you don't have the Italians, Jews, Puerto Ricans, etc, that tend to be more outspoken and animated communicators. There's this funny Pemco Insurance commercial they play on the radio about the "confused east coast transplant"...possibly from Philly or Boston but you can tell by the content that probably what they were trying to portray was a New Yorker who doesn't quite understand some of the cultural nuances of the Pacific Northwest.
I've lived in NY myself and personally, kind prefer the louder, more gregarious and outgoing communication style you see there since I tend to be little bit more like that myself, but to each there own. There's a place for everybody.
So people are actually complaining that your neighbors don't want to butt into your private life? One of the best things about this area is that PEOPLE LEAVE YOU ALONE. I don't want a bunch of superficial relationships where I have to make fake-nice conversations and keep up a bunch of exhausting social engagements when I'd rather be home with my wife and kid. If I want to be your friend, I'll let you know. But if being a social butterfly is your thing, then yeah, this area probably isn't for you. Plenty of cities out there with more outgoing people.
We have some neighbors who came over to our place after we moved in, all ebullient and welcoming, like they were from the high school pep squad. Last year, they invited us over to their house for dinner. We went, and we had pleasant if inconsequential conversation, but I couldn't wait to get back home. They're great people; I just don't necessarily want to spend time with them. An occasional hello wave over the fence is really quite enough.
Not surprisingly, they're not From Here. They're SoCal natives. SoCal is bright and sunny, like their personalities.
Of course, I'm not From Here, either. I'm from the Midwest, by way of the East Coast. But I totally "get" the culture here. It's like it was tailor-made for me.
Look, here's the thing. Seattle is a city nestled way up in the far northwest corner of the country, far-flung and remote and right on the way to nowhere in particular. It's an afterthought to a lot of people who don't live on the West Coast, if they think about it at all. That probably sounds like an awful place to most people. For someone who's happy to be left alone and forgotten, it's paradise. Couple that with the cloudy, rainy weather that lends itself to indoor activities for a good part of the year, like reading a book in front of the fire at home, and you have the perfect recipe for an introvert haven.
It's not that people are giving you the cold shoulder; it's more likely that they're not comfortable with socialization unless they really know you. But they have no reason to be rude to you, so they'll carry on a polite conversation next to you on the bus, but they're not going to invite you out for lunch anytime soon. People who act like this are the butt of any number of insults, and all it does is show how much introverts are misunderstood in a world of extroverts who never shut their mouths. Some of us take our energy from solitude and find social activities stressful and draining. I'd rather stick bamboo shoots under my fingernails than make small talk. And I dare say we make up a good portion of the population of Seattle, if not the entire Pacific Northwest.
I don't buy the "Scandinavian heritage" argument, either. How many people are still left here from the early Norwegian settlers? This place is full of transplants. Not to mention that the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, my home state, is dominated to this day by people with Scandinavian heritage, and they're actually pretty outgoing. Abrasive, but welcoming and actually quite funny.
Sorry to go on at length, but this "Seattle freeze" topic is a burr under my saddle. It always sounds to me like an excuse for extroverts to bash introverts.
Introverted or Anti-Social/Self-Absorbed? Well, cannot we call a spade a spade?
It's like a guy who doesn't like giving to the poor is not greedy, he is financially conscious..
No hard feelings to Adrian.. I do agree with you about hating fake relationships and putting on act of friendliness. However, that certainly seems to be a trait in Washington where people force themselves to smile and be friendly, because they really don't want to be. I hate to say that many social interactions I have with people here are completely superficial, fake and artificial. So, do me a favor and if you hate my guts, tell me to (insert gesture) myself rather than smile and be nice. I have felt like clocking a few people for giving me the "passive aggressive smile of death." here.
Believe it or not, not all friendly, outgoing and sometimes ( a bit nosy) people are out to do you harm. They are not all fake and trying to obstruct you or take control of your life and destroy your privacy. Some people just want friends.. Yes, I know its hard to understand. There are others who believe in being kind to their neighbor. It is actually part of old American culture. Our modern American culture of consumerism, technology and financial stability has resulted in shaping us into self-absorbed people who tend to want to isolate ourselves. We no longer need human companionship when we have technological equipment to entertain us and our lives are comfortable.
The problem with Americans, in my opinion, in general is that they are very guarded and reserved and don't like expressing their emotions. Everything is very formal, staged and business-like. It is no wonder, so many people run to shrinks and pharm drugs to pour their guts out, as they feel it is wrong to share with anyone else. This phenomenon can be said about both social and introverted people. My friend from Israel was shocked when he first came to USA, living in Minnesota. He couldn't understand why people would ask him how was his day. IN Israel if you ask this, you really want to know. So, he would tell them an honest answer and couldn't understand when they would act all insulted or confused when he didn't respond with the robotic, "My day is fine", answer. He said he became so annoyed with people asking him this, many times he would tell them not to ask him. Over time, as he lived here longer he started to understand it was just a formality and not to take it seriously.
Believe it or not, not all friendly, outgoing and sometimes ( a bit nosy) people are out to do you harm. They are not all fake and trying to obstruct you or take control of your life and destroy your privacy. Some people just want friends.. Yes, I know its hard to understand. There are others who believe in being kind to their neighbor. It is actually part of old American culture. Our modern American culture of consumerism, technology and financial stability has resulted in shaping us into self-absorbed people who tend to want to isolate ourselves. We no longer need human companionship when we have technological equipment to entertain us and our lives are comfortable.
The problem with Americans, in my opinion, in general is that they are very guarded and reserved and don't like expressing their emotions. Everything is very formal, staged and business-like. It is no wonder, so many people run to shrinks and pharm drugs to pour their guts out, as they feel it is wrong to share with anyone else. This phenomenon can be said about both social and introverted people. My friend from Israel was shocked when he first came to USA, living in Minnesota. He couldn't understand why people would ask him how was his day. IN Israel if you ask this, you really want to know. So, he would tell them an honest answer and couldn't understand when they would act all insulted or confused when he didn't respond with the robotic, "My day is fine", answer. He said he became so annoyed with people asking him this, many times he would tell them not to ask him. Over time, as he lived here longer he started to understand it was just a formality and not to take it seriously.
I would love your Israeli friend! R-C, move to California, if you can. You'll be happier there. Or maybe I should move to Israel, lol! Actually, this is one reason why I feel so at home in Russia. There's more depth to relationships/friendships there.
Sorry to go on at length, but this "Seattle freeze" topic is a burr under my saddle. It always sounds to me like an excuse for extroverts to bash introverts.
No, no, I'm sorry. I only brought it up because we talked about it in an academic setting and apparently it's been researched. The subject, annoying to many, comes up so often here and I thought, "huh, this is actually intriguing to social scientists, how about that? Maybe knowledge of this scientific inquiry would be be of interest to others on CD?" Oh well. I thought it was cool. Just added more considerations for me to consider.
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