Your opinion on King County Prop1 ($60 car tab tax)? (Seattle: 2013, to rent)

[wutitiz]

Originally Posted by Ira500

It's an unfair way to get the money they need to maintain roads and transit, but C'mon! Socialist? Aren't public schools, by their nature socialist? Libraries? Parks? Shouldn't book readers be paying for books?
The way the tax system is set up in this state is screwed up, and when they do put something on the ballot, it's usually some ungodly mess, because they're trying to please a lot of different political constituencies. I completely agree that car tabs to pay for transit is wrong. But simply charging users the full amount without considering why is wrong too. I've never been a crime victim. Why should I have to pay for police. My house has never burned down. Why am I paying for that socialist fire department?

The definition of socialism is government ownership/operation of the means of production, so sure fire depts., parks, schools, and libraries are all socialist. Socialized fire protection can be justified on the grounds that fires spread. If fire protection is private, and your neighbor neglects to buy it, then if his house burns uncontrolled, your house is threatened by his lack of protection.

Similar justifications can be found for police, libraries, etc. I don't know of any justification for gov't operation of mass transit. It could and should be privatized. The fact that it is not is why the cost per passenger mile by bus is $1.70, whereas the same cost by private car is 37 cents. It's the same reason why it costs Amtrak over $16 to make a cheeseburger that it sells for $9.50, whereas Jack in the Box sells it for $2 dollars, and makes a profit in the process.

Of course privatization of transit is not going to happen anytime soon. We had a chance to move in that direction with the ride share companies, but Seattle city council put the kibosh on that.

[tridentsx]

I grew up in Sweden during the eighties and trust me I know socialism, reading the original post it seems this tax is to cover for bus drivers salaries that the government can't afford paying. Something has changed because they could pay the salaries before, I understand that fuel is more expensive but that has to be passed on as fuel surcharge to the tickets.

If the money was ear marked for a "mega" infrastructure project that venture capitalists shy's away from because they normally dont have a quick return on investment such as a new subway system etc ... then I could see a justification.

But if the tax is there to fix pot holes and pay buss drivers then they should increase fares.

[Ira500]

Originally Posted by tridentsx

I grew up in Sweden during the eighties and trust me I know socialism, reading the original post it seems this tax is to cover for bus drivers salaries that the government can't afford paying. Something has changed because they could pay the salaries before, I understand that fuel is more expensive but that has to be passed on as fuel surcharge to the tickets.

If the money was ear marked for a "mega" infrastructure project that venture capitalists shy's away from because they normally dont have a quick return on investment such as a new subway system etc ... then I could see a justification.

But if the tax is there to fix pot holes and pay buss drivers then they should increase fares.

Metro bus fares have doubled since 2007, and I believe this 60 dollar car tab vote includes another slight bus fare increase, as well as a slight increase in the sales tax.

Just being practical here, ridership and demand for Metro's bus service is up. They used to get a certain amount of revenues from car tabs before Initiative 695, but now, in order to get anywhere close to the amount of revenue they used to before the initiative, it has to go to the voters. Most of the revenue they get comes from sales tax. They get some car tab money, and about 25% of their expenses from the farebox.
Most cities that are considered desirable in the US have a robust transit system. Neighboring Pierce and Snohomish counties have cut a lot of their service due to revenue shortfalls( the recession), which increased the demand for transit while reducing revenue. Metro has been able to stave off major cuts, with a short term vote and union concessions.
Like I said before, I don't think it's a fair way to increase transit revenue by collecting it on the backs of car owners. A large sales tax increase might be more fair, but it wouldn't pass at the ballot box. We don't have an income tax. Raising fares substantially after they've already doubled over the last seven years would cause more people to drive, increasing already bad traffic. I'm voting yes, but I'm mad at the politicians for not being able to work with each other to come up with something more fair and more permanent. I really don't want to have to go to the ballot box and have to vote on these stupid things every year or two. The vast majority of the time, I don't know enough to make an informed decision. That's why we elect those clowns.

[sean98125]

I think that there is plenty of room for Metro to revise it's service structure to become more efficient while not reducing their current ridership. For example, have some bus rapid transit lines linking the Park & Rides and neighborhood circulators feeding the P&R lots. Doesn't make a lot of sense to have a bus route that goes from the outlying areas of Kent to a P&R in Kent, and then all the way in to Seattle by way of Tukwila and Boeing. Makes more sense to use circulator/shuttles to the P&Rs and buses every few minutes during commute time along the interstates and major arterials.

King County should give everyone a bus pass for free when you pay your car tabs.

[GatsbyGatz]

Any idea how the funding will be spent for "road improvements" besides the typical potholes? Seattle's streets are in terrible condition. Many streets don't even have side walks. I'd expect no sidewalks in rural village roads, but in a supposedly urban metropolis?

[Yakscsd]

Originally Posted by Andy

Write a check to Metro or Sound Transit. Nothing is stopping you from donating $ towards your chosen cause. It is a better method than using the violent power of police force to take it away from people unwillingly via car tabs.

Is your last name Kardasian? With all that drama i would guess it is.

[SaltyDawg]

I'm still struck by the OP's phrase "God only asks for 10%". Who passed that levy? Zeus, Jesus, Allah, or some other? Where does that money go again?

Find me a great city that lacks robust public transportation infrastructure.

Once you fail at finding that city, find me the city with a robust public transportation infrastructure whose residents don't contribute directly to its existence.

The cost of this levy per year is literally less than a single tank of gas. Think about that, and then think about what getting even more people defaulting to single-occupancy cars will do to YOUR gas bill.

Say what you want about waste - Metro has not been fantastic financially, but Sound Transit has illustrated how a well-run organization can work for the good of the region. Voting against this is a sprawl-supporting mess.

Full disclosure: I take transit for my commute 3-5 days per work week and drive 0 to 2 days, and I live in Seattle proper.

[jjinla]

Absolutely not until the MTA gets their operating costs in line with those of other cities.

I'd happily support an increase if it were warranted, but it's not. The last increase they got was followed by huge wage increases. The MTA has a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

[jjinla]

Another thing to note is that this isn't just a $60 car tab tax, but an increase in sales tax, which most estimates say amount to several hundred a year per family.

This bill also gives no new money to park and ride services, so even if they do increase bus routes (they aren't), many of the busiest spots are already out of parking by 8am or so.

Add to that, this local measure jeapordizes a much-needed comprehensive transportation packag at the state level.

Ok, off my soapbox for now. At least have all the facts before voting. The Bellevue City Council won't even endorse it. Don't give in to all the fearmongering by the union.

[sean98125]

Originally Posted by SaltyDawg

The cost of this levy per year is literally less than a single tank of gas.

Um, no.

The car tab increase is about the cost of a tank of gas, but don't forget about the .1% sales tax increase that people will have to pay as well. Don't forget about the sales tax increase or the $600 million a year in operations and the almost $500 million in capital expenses that King County residents already spend to support Metro. I know that the money we already pay to support Metro isn't included in the current levy, but the tank of gas is already on top of the money we already pay to subsidize the service.

We approved a .2% sales tax in 2000 to pay for almost 600,000 hours of new bus service but Metro only added about half of that by the time the levy expired.

We approved a .1% sales tax increase to pay for an additional 700,000 hours of service. Again, Metro only managed to add less than half of what they promised.

In 2010, Metro said that they'd have to cut bus service if they didn't get an additional $20 in car tab fees, and the county council gave it to them. And Metro cut service.

And all of this on top of the elimination of the ride free area and bus fare increases every year since 2008.

Metro has been given hundreds of millions in extra revenue over the last decade and again they are asking for more money like a trust fund child who ran out of spending money at his party school.

Metro doesn't need more money - they get tons. They need to learn how to manage what they have more efficiently.