I-405 Variable Toll Lanes - You'll need 3 for Carpool (Seattle: to rent, home)

[RJ8089]

When I heard about tolling HOV lanes on I-405, I thought it was the dumbest thing ever. AND I STILL DO. DUMB BEYOND IMAGINATION. Soon you will have to have 3 people to carpool. Now there will be less use of HOV lanes, throwing more people into the general traffic lanes. Hmmm.... Sounds like the genius of the liberal dummies in Olympia. How about widen these freeways you idiots!!! We are not getting rid of our cars!!

[CrazyDonkey]

Here are the facts:

The NE 6th Street to I-5 (Bellevue to Lynnwood) Widening and Express Toll Lanes project will complement the widening between NE 85th Street and NE 124th Street (Kirkland Nickel Stage 1 project) by building one continuous northbound and southbound lane between NE 6th Street in Bellevue and SR 522 in Bothell. This new lane, when combined with the existing carpool lane, will operate as a dual express toll lane system from downtown Bellevue to Bothell/Woodinville. Additionally, the existing carpool lane from SR 522 to I-5 will be converted to a single express toll lane or high-occupancy vehicle toll (HOT) lane.

The new express toll lane system will provide 17 miles of congestion relief to Bellevue, Kirkland, and Bothell.

WSDOT - Project - I-405 - NE 6th to I-5 Widening and Express Toll Lanes

The Kirkland Nickel Project additionally will add additional north-south general purpose lanes:

* A new northbound general-purpose lane on I-405 from the NE 70th Street interchange to the NE 124th Street interchange;
* A new southbound general-purpose lane from just south of the SR 522 interchange to just north of the SR 520 interchange; and
* Reconfiguration of the interchange at NE 116th Street to improve traffic operations.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres...eSummaryv3.pdf

The problem now is that the existing HOV lanes are frequently flowing no more freely than the general purpose lanes, due to more demand than capacity.

[Hemlock140]

Originally Posted by RJ8089

When I heard about tolling HOV lanes on I-405, I thought it was the dumbest thing ever. AND I STILL DO. DUMB BEYOND IMAGINATION. Soon you will have to have 3 people to carpool. Now there will be less use of HOV lanes, throwing more people into the general traffic lanes. Hmmm.... Sounds like the genius of the liberal dummies in Olympia. How about widen these freeways you idiots!!! We are not getting rid of our cars!!

You can drive alone in the new lanes all you want, you just have to pay the toll. Like on the 167 hot lanes, people would rather pay than to sit in traffic.

[jm31828]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

Here are the facts:



WSDOT - Project - I-405 - NE 6th to I-5 Widening and Express Toll Lanes

The Kirkland Nickel Project additionally will add additional north-south general purpose lanes:



http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres...eSummaryv3.pdf

The problem now is that the existing HOV lanes are frequently flowing no more freely than the general purpose lanes, due to more demand than capacity.

I often notice people driving in the HOV lanes with just a single occupant- they will either use it temporarily to pass someone or a long string of cars, or just drive in it the whole time feeling confident they won't get busted. I would like to see much more strict enforcement of the HOV lanes-- and if we aren't going to enforce the law, then just do away with the HOV designation and make that lane a regular general purpose lane to give us all a break.

[Hemlock140]

Originally Posted by jm31828

I often notice people driving in the HOV lanes with just a single occupant- they will either use it temporarily to pass someone or a long string of cars, or just drive in it the whole time feeling confident they won't get busted. I would like to see much more strict enforcement of the HOV lanes-- and if we aren't going to enforce the law, then just do away with the HOV designation and make that lane a regular general purpose lane to give us all a break.

We passed a lone guy in a Corvette in the carpool lane on 405 one day, and I gave him "a look" and less than a minute later the State Patrol got him.

[Botev1912]

but it will be legal to drive in this lane by yourself soon.

[wutitiz]

Although I despise the very idea of HOV lanes, I think this might be a good idea. I commute home everyday on 405 from Renton to S. Bellevue, around 2PM-3:30. The HOV lane is normally near-empty. Apparently there are no bus routes on that stretch; I virtually never see a bus, metro van, etc. At that time of day everyone is either commuting solo, going to appointments, etc. No soccer moms ferrying kids or drinking buddies on their way to the bar to be able to use the lane, thus saving the environment, relieving congestion, and being generally superior to us solo commuters.

This would at least be a way to get some use out of the lane that taxpayers paid to have built, rather than letting it go to waste. Granted, it means we pay a 2nd time to use the resource that we already paid for. But perhaps it's worth it to have that superior feeling of being in the HOV lane.

[wutitiz]

The downside is that increased use of the HOV lane will mean increased accidents. The problem I see all the time is that people are loathe to get out of the HOV lane until just before their exit. I think it's a quirk of human nature that if you have some special status, you don't want to give it up.

So they wait until just before their exit, and now they have to get across 2 lanes in a hurry, which means that they have to cut off the guy who is doing 75 in the left (gen purpose) lane. At best this creates slowdowns and congestion, and at worst it creates some horrific accidents.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by wutitiz

Although I despise the very idea of HOV lanes, I think this might be a good idea. I commute home everyday on 405 from Renton to S. Bellevue, around 2PM-3:30. The HOV lane is normally near-empty. [...]

This would at least be a way to get some use out of the lane that taxpayers paid to have built, rather than letting it go to waste. Granted, it means we pay a 2nd time to use the resource that we already paid for. But perhaps it's worth it to have that superior feeling of being in the HOV lane.

Unfortunately, the "express toll lanes" will be limited to Bellevue to Lynnwood, at least for now. It makes sense that there are plans at some point in the future to expand them south to Renton, connecting with the SR-167 HOT lanes. At 2:00 pm, you'd be paying toward the lower end of the demand-toll scale. Here's WSDOT's list of benefits from express toll lanes:

• Operate efficiently: Express toll lanes move more people and offer a more reliable trip.
• Reduce traffic congestion: Express toll lanes improve mobility for all people in the corridor including transit, freight and drivers in the regular lanes.
• Manage demand to improve speed and reliability: Toll rates adjust based on real-time traffic conditions to maintain an average speed of at least 45 mph in the express toll lanes.
• Provide for future improvements: Express toll lanes will provide funding towards future I-405 corridor improvements.

WSDOT - Tolling - I-405 Express Toll Lanes

[CrazyDonkey]

One issue with HOV lanes is that federal standards require that speeds average 45 mph 90% of the time during peak travel periods. Many HOV lanes in the Seattle area do not meet that standard. That could be why three passengers will be required to use the new I-405 HOV/Express Toll Lanes, or any other new HOV lanes.

The minimum average operating speed is defined at Section 166(d)(2)(A) as 45 miles per hour (mph), for an HOV facility with a speed limit of 50 mph or greater, and not more than 10 mph below the speed limit for a facility with a speed limit of less than 50 mph. Section 166(d)(2)(B) provides that an HOV facility is considered degraded if it fails to maintain a minimum average operating speed 90 percent of the time over a consecutive 180-day period during morning or evening weekday peak hour periods (or both for a reversible facility).

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freewaymgmt/...e/chapter4.htm