Rural Living (farm, acre, houses, water supply)

[surburbangirlie]

Housing prices are rising and utility costs in rural areas are sometimes rather costly, I have some land (less than an acre) in rural Alabama that I was thinking about putting a small manufactured home on, but I don't want to depend heavily on services with utility prices that can fluctuate at whim. Here are some ideas. Please tell me what you think.

• Composting toilets to replace costly septic and sewer systems.
• Rain water collection systems would provide water for household uses such as flusing toilets (if necessary), watering plants, and doing laundry
• Solar, wind, water, or natural energy powered generators could be used to power simple household appliances and electric lights.
• Compost recycling systems would allow me to turn animal manure and plant wastes into fertilizer for trees and shrubs.
• Natural heating and cooling solutions could replace the need to use costly heaters and air conditioners. Also, perhaps I could use a battery powered fan that allowed itself to be charged with a hand crank.
• Freshwater wells with hand pumps would allow me to draw from the ground my own water for drinking and cooking.
• Gray water filters would allow me to take water used for cooking, laundry, and plants and recycle it for use on plants, laundry, or flushing the toilet.
• Small animals and live stock such as goats--milk and fertilizer, chickens--eggs and meat (possibly), rabbits--meat and fertilizer, bees--honey, fish--meat, etc.
• Quick yielding vegetation such as Kudzoo, wild roots, grasses, seeds, black berry briars, dill, sage, chia grass, etc. for animal feed and herbs.

Now, assuming I don't want to live a camper's or RV lifestyle, how would I generate enough electricity to run refrigeration units? Are there natural solutions to this? I haven't figured all of it out yet, and I would like some suggestions.

Something similar is also posted on the Green Living forum. Perhaps it's more appropriate here.

[Nite Ryder]

City planning department rules and regulations might have a say si in your ideas for sewer and possibly water. Where I live you have to get a permit to set a manufactured home on a vacant lot. In order to get that permit you have to jump through a whole bunch of hoops. Makes you wonder what happened to freedom. I wish I could figure out a way to live off the grid, if I were younger, it would be worthwhile Figuring it out. I have an friend who lives off the grid and runs a small machine/welding shop on his property. He has serious solar panels and batteries as part of his system, and I think a generator takes care of the stuff that draws alot of amps. There is no zoning laws where he lives that controls what he can and can't do. But he lives way out in the 'pucker brush'.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by collegestudentfromalabama

...

Composting toilets to replace costly septic and sewer systems

Very common here.

...Rain water collection systems would provide water for household uses such as flusing toilets (if necessary), watering plants, and doing laundry

Yes, it works

... Solar, wind, water, or natural energy powered generators could be used to power simple household appliances and electric lights

Compost recycling systems would allow me to turn animal manure and plant wastes into fertilizer for trees and shrubs.

Natural heating and cooling solutions could replace the need to use costly heaters and air conditioners. Also, perhaps I could use a battery powered fan that allowed itself to be charged with a hand crank.

Freshwater wells with hand pumps would allow me to draw from the ground my own water for drinking and cooking.

We see many examples of each of these

... Gray water filters would allow me to take water used for cooking, laundry, and plants and recycle it for use on plants, laundry, or flushing the toilet.

Lots of folks re-use their greywater.

I have never heard of anyone filtering it though.

... Small animals and live stock such as goats--milk and fertilizer, chickens--eggs and meat (possibly), rabbits--meat and fertilizer, bees--honey, fish--meat, etc.

sheep, hogs, ducks, ...

... Quick yielding vegetation such as Kudzoo, wild roots, grasses, seeds, black berry briars, dill, sage, chia grass, etc. for animal feed and herbs.

'quick yielding' may also mean finicky.

... Now, assuming I don't want to live a camper's or RV lifestyle, how would I generate enough electricity to run refrigeration units? Are there natural solutions to this? I haven't figured all of it out yet, and I would like some suggestions.


Something similar is also posted on the Green Living forum. Perhaps it's more appropriate here.

A flowing creek works to replace a refrigerator.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Nite Ryder

City planning department rules and regulations might have a say si in your ideas for sewer and possibly water. Where I live you have to get a permit to set a manufactured home on a vacant lot. In order to get that permit you have to jump through a whole bunch of hoops. Makes you wonder what happened to freedom. I wish I could figure out a way to live off the grid, if I were younger, it would be worthwhile Figuring it out. I have an friend who lives off the grid and runs a small machine/welding shop on his property. He has serious solar panels and batteries as part of his system, and I think a generator takes care of the stuff that draws alot of amps. There is no zoning laws where he lives that controls what he can and can't do. But he lives way out in the 'pucker brush'.

You may have missed it, but the subforum is rural; not urban.

In more urban areas, like where houses are closer than 1 mile from each other you may have urban issues.

But rural homes [greater than a mile apart] or population densities of less than 10 per square mile; do not usually have zoning.

[Nor'Eastah]

We are planning to live off-grid in northern Maine, probably not too far from where Forest Beekeeper lives.

Lighting, water pump, radios, and refrigeration are our biggest concerns. TV and video games are not concerns at all, though recharging a laptop might be of some concern.

We own two generators of about 5 kw each -- one to use if the other fails. We plan to keep a bank of 8 deep-cycle batteries and an inverter, and to run the generator for about an hour each morning to fully charge the batteries. As time and finances allow, we will begin to add solar panels. At first, the solar panels will be used to charge 12V batteries that will power our basic LED lighting. LED's have come a long way in the last few years, and can well light a household both indoors and out. Later, we will use more solar panels to charge the deep-cycle batteries, also.

We have been experimenting with smaller, dorm-sized refrigerators, rather than the behemoths that folks take for granted in their kitchens nowadays. Just big enough to hold a gallon of water, gallon of milk, 2 dozen eggs, a leftover roast, and some open cans not used up yet.

We got a gizmo called a "Kill-O-Watt" that you connect between your AC appliances and the wall outlet. It tells you how much power the appliance uses. This info is useful when you wish to add up the total power consumption you need to provide for.

In Maine, I know that outhouses are allowed, and we will use some common sense about the placement of one or more of them. We do not plan to have more than one flush toilet in the house. We expect to use graywater to flush it. And no, we won't filter it.

This is an excellent thread, and I hope that many more ideas come forth here.

[PAhippo]

I'm under the impression that kudzoo is extremely invasive and kills local flora and, indirectly, animal life.


Can I ask why you want to do this? maybe I should start a separate post for this as it seems rather a common desire. Can't understand it but maybe that's because I like my indoor flush toilet!

[Nite Ryder]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

You may have missed it, but the subforum is rural; not urban.

In more urban areas, like where houses are closer than 1 mile from each other you may have urban issues.

But rural homes [greater than a mile apart] or population densities of less than 10 per square mile; do not usually have zoning.

You are correct, instead of saying city planning regs, I should have said county planning regulations. We had a situation fifty miles North of the town I live in where some folks got into trouble for moving a trailer to a vacant lot out in the woods just outside a small town and set up living quarters. I don't remember all the particulars, but at the time I thought the county officials should mind their own business. It's possible they had settled on Forest Service land, and that is what the ruckus was all about.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Nite Ryder

You are correct, instead of saying city planning regs, I should have said county planning regulations. We had a situation fifty miles North of the town I live in where some folks got into trouble for moving a trailer to a vacant lot out in the woods just outside a small town and set up living quarters. I don't remember all the particulars, but at the time I thought the county officials should mind their own business. It's possible they had settled on Forest Service land, and that is what the ruckus was all about.

I understand though OR has very restrictive land use laws...I don't believe AL (where the OP is from) has those, outside of cities...

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by collegestudentfromalabama

Housing prices are rising and utility costs in rural areas are sometimes rather costly, I have some land (less than an acre) in rural Alabama that I was thinking about putting a small manufactured home on, but I don't want to depend heavily on services with utility prices that can fluctuate at whim. Here are some ideas. Please tell me what you think.

• Composting toilets to replace costly septic and sewer systems.
• Rain water collection systems would provide water for household uses such as flusing toilets (if necessary), watering plants, and doing laundry
• Solar, wind, water, or natural energy powered generators could be used to power simple household appliances and electric lights.
• Compost recycling systems would allow me to turn animal manure and plant wastes into fertilizer for trees and shrubs.
• Natural heating and cooling solutions could replace the need to use costly heaters and air conditioners. Also, perhaps I could use a battery powered fan that allowed itself to be charged with a hand crank.
• Freshwater wells with hand pumps would allow me to draw from the ground my own water for drinking and cooking.
• Gray water filters would allow me to take water used for cooking, laundry, and plants and recycle it for use on plants, laundry, or flushing the toilet.
• Small animals and live stock such as goats--milk and fertilizer, chickens--eggs and meat (possibly), rabbits--meat and fertilizer, bees--honey, fish--meat, etc.
• Quick yielding vegetation such as Kudzoo, wild roots, grasses, seeds, black berry briars, dill, sage, chia grass, etc. for animal feed and herbs.

Now, assuming I don't want to live a camper's or RV lifestyle, how would I generate enough electricity to run refrigeration units? Are there natural solutions to this? I haven't figured all of it out yet, and I would like some suggestions.

Something similar is also posted on the Green Living forum. Perhaps it's more appropriate here.

Stay away from kudzu.

Now for the rest...

1 acre isn't much land so you will need to bring in feed for livestock, generally. It might be possible in the South to grow enough to feed some rabbits, maybe, but figure on buying feed.

Solar is expensive to set up...think on a small scale. Small, efficient, fridge.

A deep well hand pump isn't cheap, but you may find one used at a reasonable price...keeping in mind you need the pumphead, cylinder, etc.

[harry chickpea]

Originally Posted by collegestudentfromalabama

Housing prices are rising and utility costs in rural areas are sometimes rather costly, I have some land (less than an acre) in rural Alabama that I was thinking about putting a small manufactured home on, but I don't want to depend heavily on services with utility prices that can fluctuate at whim. Here are some ideas. Please tell me what you think.

• Composting toilets to replace costly septic and sewer systems.
• Rain water collection systems would provide water for household uses such as flusing toilets (if necessary), watering plants, and doing laundry
• Solar, wind, water, or natural energy powered generators could be used to power simple household appliances and electric lights.
• Compost recycling systems would allow me to turn animal manure and plant wastes into fertilizer for trees and shrubs.
• Natural heating and cooling solutions could replace the need to use costly heaters and air conditioners. Also, perhaps I could use a battery powered fan that allowed itself to be charged with a hand crank.
• Freshwater wells with hand pumps would allow me to draw from the ground my own water for drinking and cooking.
• Gray water filters would allow me to take water used for cooking, laundry, and plants and recycle it for use on plants, laundry, or flushing the toilet.
• Small animals and live stock such as goats--milk and fertilizer, chickens--eggs and meat (possibly), rabbits--meat and fertilizer, bees--honey, fish--meat, etc.
• Quick yielding vegetation such as Kudzoo, wild roots, grasses, seeds, black berry briars, dill, sage, chia grass, etc. for animal feed and herbs.

Now, assuming I don't want to live a camper's or RV lifestyle, how would I generate enough electricity to run refrigeration units? Are there natural solutions to this? I haven't figured all of it out yet, and I would like some suggestions.

Something similar is also posted on the Green Living forum. Perhaps it's more appropriate here.

I think you have been reading a lot of the standard eco-back-to-nature-pie-in-the-sky plans. Most of them are labor intensive and unworkable over any length of time. I have other stronger words for them, but I'll be kind.

We live in rural Alabama and did something similar, but on a decent budget. Some comments from having walked the walk-

A septic tank installed is about $2K, + $400 for perc tests and fees, and you're done with it except having it emptied every few years. Composting means you spend almost as much and get to play with your poo more. Septic makes far more sense and the county health inspector won't be hassling you.

Rain water - to harvest and use it, you'll need a cistern. New septic tanks can be made into a cistern, and if the septic guy is going to be there anyway... A well or creek is more reliable than rain. When there is no rain for a month or two, and you have a fire hazard condition around you, praying for rain should only be plan F or G, not plan A. We use about 400 to 500 gallons a week of water for two of us, laundry, etc.. Depending on rainwater would be a hardship, and our cistern is kept full during dry times, just in case the water is needed to fight a brush fire. If you depend on rain, you WILL have to buy water at some point.

Solar, wind, and water energy. If you have less than an acre, you can cross off water power unless you have a mountain goat lot in Gurley with a major stream on it. Solar can be abundant when things are hot, but not so good when it is midwinter with low insolation. Wind is sporadic. All of these have a high up front cost and rely on batteries which have to be replaced periodically. They are NOT usually cost effective, but are used when the cost of running a power line gets up in the $10,000 range.

Composting is a pile or two or three of waste. Yeah, you can get some value out of that. Pretty simple, you might harbor some mice or insects, but you'll have plenty of raw material.

Natural cooling and heating. Maybe. You are only going to get a moderation of temperatures unless you go underground. It takes a lot to modify 105 degree temps and 90% humidity levels to comfort levels. Cold can be handled with wood heat. If you can bury some pipe under the manufactured home, and then fan force the 95 degree September air through them for a few days going into winter, and freezing April temps into them before summer, you can mitigate some heating/cooling costs. If you can duct to a heat pump on the days with extremes of hot and cold, you can seriously cut costs.

Wells generally have to be shallow wells for hand pumps to work. Think 20 to 25 feet deep max.. Most wells in this area are about 100 feet deep. Wells are about $20 a foot. Some can be dry. Having someone witch for water makes sense.

Grey water filters. I'll put it this way - if you are concerned about having to re-use grey water, you don't have an adequate water supply. Our grey water goes into the septic and then back to the land, rather than scumming up the toilet tank, or putting detergent on plants. Grey water brou-ha-ha is mostly for arid regions and city folk who pay an arm and leg for water. No water gets imported or exported to most country places. By definition, if reasonable care is taken, on-site water use has almost a zero effect on local water levels and there is no need to starve the septic system of water.

Goats - on less than an acre??? Maybe a couple - IF you know how to make good fences and don't mind your garden being eaten when they tear it down. Chickens - BTDT. It is far more cost effective to buy them on sale in the grocery store. They are a learning experience though, so get some to try it out. Rabbits - temperamental in temperature needs. Too hot, they die. Too cold, they die. If you don't have proper night time enclosures for any farm animal then coyotes, dogs, foxes, or raccoons will kill them. We hear a coyote chorus many nights, have had resident foxes, and had to deal with feral dogs dropped off by city folk. Hawks like free range chicken. Killing hawks is a Federal offense.

Fast growing weeds. Don't worry, you'll get them anyway. Anything that is fast growing is almost always likely to turn into a pest plant or weed. Only fools plant kudzu, bamboo, and the invasives. They then spend the next five years trying to kill them. Hay is usually cheap.

Generating enough electricity - you cannot generate electricity at a cost anywhere near as low as the power companies can. Period. Twelve cents a kilowatt hour is a steal. Keep your use low and you don't have to worry about fluctuating costs. There are efficient refrigerators, but don't fall for marketing hype.

FWIW, Your manufactured home in Alabama will have to have proper footings, tie-downs, and skirting to be legal and to limit your problems with field mice, rats, whistle pigs, raccoons, cats, and other pest animals that like to get under and in them. It also has to be an unrestricted area for you to even have one.

Depending on your budget and time frame, you may find that buying a repossessed manufactured home can save you money. Spend the money you save on site prep, get one with at least 6" of wall insulation, and put in concrete block (with insulation) for the skirting. Our place has concrete block and hardyboard exterior so that I don't have to be concerned about brush fires.