Off-Grid vs. Homesteading (farmland, lakes, coyote, chicken)
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People can go on and on about 'hobby farming' or whatever. I sell produce in a market alongside other vendors who make artisan cheese. They are off-grid, they make cheese, and they earn a lot more than I do.
'hobby farming' that makes more money than conventional farming? Yes, it happens.
Nobody goes into this for the money. Most folks I rub elbows with are happy to simply get by without need for a job in town. Many farms do okay without a job in town, but on these forums they will always be hobby farms.
Maine must be the last utopia then because I don't know anyone who is living off farming without a supplemental income.
Maine must be the last utopia then because I don't know anyone who is living off farming without a supplemental income.
My father tried to do that his entire life. Between California and Missouri, he always needed a good income to support his farming habit.
As I see it, being financially sustainable on your farm starts with your taxes. But really it includes all of your lifestyle and Cost-Of-Living.
We have 150 acres with river frontage and a large new house, 2 cars, a dump truck and a motorcycle. Between income taxes, property taxes, and vehicle taxes, we pay nearly $1,000 every year. No matter what happens, flood, fire, or meteor strike, we still need $1,000 every year just to pay the government.
I have owned homes that were on 50' by 100' lots that we were charged $4,000+ in property taxes.
By migrating to Maine, now we live in a town where the average household income is 2X Minimum-Wage. If two adults both work flipping burgers, they can afford to buy a home and raise a family. I know a number of people here, who only work p/t or who work seasonally. They enjoy fishing, hunting, sledding, trapping, and foraging.
I read on forums, where a lot of places say you can not survive on Minimum-Wage.
Last edited by Submariner; 10-04-2014 at 05:13 PM..
Good luck up there in Northern Maine. We are down here in the Southern half of Maine, just a bit North of Bangor.
Sub, I wouldn't call your neck of the woods "southern Maine"! Many folks turn pale and ask me, "You mean, you're as far north as BANGOR??!!". You'd think it was Siberia! They should have seen me sweating this past July in 92 degree heat. I left RI to get away from that! Oh well, getting nice out, now.
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Originally Posted by Submariner
I have Large Black and Hampshire pigs.
I should pay you a visit and learn the finer points of pig-farming!
Ohhhh yeah...me and my little flip phone, even the grandkids laugh at me!
This year (our first in Maine) we are raising heritage breed, pasture-fed goose, turkey, and duck, along with our regular chickens. It's a risk, but we took it. Dang birds, some of 'em cost us over $10 each as day-old peeps, and I was sleeping out in the garage with 'em the first week of brooding. Then there's the feed, and the work. The good news is, we can get up to $80 each for the Bourbon Red turkeys, and over $100 for each fat goose (African-Toulouse cross) in the Boston and New York restaurants. Son-in-law deals with them in restaurant supply, as a salesman. We all got together for this venture. No wonder I don't have time to complain about my aches and pains over at the Retirement forum!
If this works, next year we add Red wattle hogs and Icelandic sheep. If nothing else, there'll be good bacon and lamb chops at our place! Can't wait for Turkey Day this year!
My brother had some Icelandic sheep for a while and liked them. Problem is the coyotes, wolves and Cougar liked them better.
I hear you on the phone! I still don't know how to text, and my current phone will barely get a weather report. Just a basic pay as you go phone from Track-fone, no extras.
We raise Scottish Highland cattle, and I can buy a buffalo here cheaper than a Highlander cow!! Buffalo are around $750 for a live 2 year old heifer, Scotties are at least $1200 for a yearling, when I can find them. I've been thinking of going with Herford Hogs when I get some room and when I have more time to grow the extra feed I'll need for them as orchards don't do well in my part of the world and the growing season for gardens is pretty limited, so I have to grow extra grain to feed them out instead of just pasture. Our Flemish Giant rabbits do really well though.
My mother raises Bronze Turkeys, and they are fabulous meals!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner
People can go on and on about 'hobby farming' or whatever. I sell produce in a market alongside other vendors who make artisan cheese. They are off-grid, they make cheese, and they earn a lot more than I do.
'hobby farming' that makes more money than conventional farming? Yes, it happens.
Nobody goes into this for the money. Most folks I rub elbows with are happy to simply get by without need for a job in town. Many farms do okay without a job in town, but on these forums they will always be hobby farms.
Many small farms around here have gone to designer crops that bring in more money for less space like mint or mushrooms or other labor intensive high return crops that don't need a lot of space.
Land prices here have surpassed ridiculous. A couple weeks ago I found a small piece of ground, 14 acres, near the home place that would have been a great place to calve out our cattle as it was a sheltered area under a hill with a creek and timber. Only $175K.
I could buy a place with 160 acres with an old house and usable barn on it, but no shelter and the only water comes from a well. Lot further from our operations too, but the price is $159K.
Tough to try and make a living when you have a huge payment to cover before taxes let alone get a living wage off of, or just meet expenses.
We must do it for the love of the life because you sure won't get rich this way.
Sub, I wouldn't call your neck of the woods "southern Maine"! Many folks turn pale and ask me, "You mean, you're as far north as BANGOR??!!". You'd think it was Siberia! They should have seen me sweating this past July in 92 degree heat. I left RI to get away from that! Oh well, getting nice out, now.
I should pay you a visit and learn the finer points of pig-farming!
I was challenged once on the topic, and I found the North / South dividing line is about Howland. I am South of Howland, so I am in the Southern half of the state.
There is a realtor I have spoken with a few times, who focuses on properties within a 40-mile radius of the NH border. He markets his properties as 'Northern Maine'.
You are welcome to come over and see our pigs anytime.
... Many small farms around here have gone to designer crops that bring in more money for less space like mint or mushrooms or other labor intensive high return crops that don't need a lot of space.
Land prices here have surpassed ridiculous. A couple weeks ago I found a small piece of ground, 14 acres, near the home place that would have been a great place to calve out our cattle as it was a sheltered area under a hill with a creek and timber. Only $175K.
I could buy a place with 160 acres with an old house and usable barn on it, but no shelter and the only water comes from a well. Lot further from our operations too, but the price is $159K.
Tough to try and make a living when you have a huge payment to cover before taxes let alone get a living wage off of, or just meet expenses.
We must do it for the love of the life because you sure won't get rich this way.
The artisan cheese folks I mentioned earlier, had a 5 acre property 10 miles South of me. They operated a goat dairy and made cheese. About 2 years ago they moved to a different place. They found a 80-acre farm with a huge farmhouse and barn. Nearly a turn-key setup that took less than a month to be up and running as their next goat dairy. The new place was marketed at $80k.
I was challenged once on the topic, and I found the North / South dividing line is about Howland. I am South of Howland, so I am in the Southern half of the state.
Howland, huh? We are a bit north of that, in the suburbs of beautiful downtown Millinocket.
It's far cry from Siberia. Haven't had a snowflake yet this fall.
Would love to see your pigs sometime. I need a source of heritage piglets, if we decide to go that route. Got a whole bunch of poultry to unload first, though...no wonder I need a 6' long freezer!
What would goose eggs bring at a Boston or NYC farmers' market? What's better? Eighty dollars for a goose or eighty dollars for a dozen eggs? Darn tootin' they'd pay it.
Duck eggs? Thirty dollars per dozen?
Artisanal olives and olive oil? Olive oil from TEXAS? They're not for sale at Walmart.
Artisanal cheese? Think Humbolt Fog.
If anyone doesn't think that New Yorkers wouldn't pay that or more, consider that Katz's in NYC charges $17.95 for a pastrami sandwiches; the place is packed.
My brother had some Icelandic sheep for a while and liked them. Problem is the coyotes, wolves and Cougar liked them better.
We have coyotes and black bear here; nobody reports problems with them. I had some trouble with hawks eyeing my birds. Haven't lost any yet, but there's always tomorrow. I would not swear that there are no cougars or wolves in this state, but none reported that I know of, hereabouts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
I hear you on the phone! I still don't know how to text, and my current phone will barely get a weather report. Just a basic pay as you go phone from Track-fone, no extras.
That's exactly what I have...a little TracFone that I buy a card for every couple months at a Walmart. I wouldn't be worth the title "skinflint" if I used anything else! Got mine back in 2008 and I can't kill it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
We raise Scottish Highland cattle, and I can buy a buffalo here cheaper than a Highlander cow!! Buffalo are around $750 for a live 2 year old heifer, Scotties are at least $1200 for a yearling, when I can find them.
The prices of large livestock are too high for us to buy in any quantity, if you add in the cost of fencing, housing, hay and any vet care. That's something we'll have to try slowly. Right now, the medium stock (hogs, sheep) are all I feel comfortable starting with, and even those will be limited at first. We may have to hire on some help, but not sure how much, yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
We must do it for the love of the life because you sure won't get rich this way.
What would goose eggs bring at a Boston or NYC farmers' market? What's better? Eighty dollars for a goose or eighty dollars for a dozen eggs? Darn tootin' they'd pay it.
Duck eggs? Thirty dollars per dozen?
Glad you brought that up. Our plan was to market the grown birds, and keep the eggs for ourselves (pullets we got last spring, just beginning to lay). No duck eggs yet, but there'd be a ready market for those, I'm sure -- both here and in the big cities. I'll discuss it with my SIL. We plan to keep basic breeding stock to overwinter, to avoid the charge for "peeps" next spring, but it all depends on what it costs us to overwinter them. Maybe it would be cheaper to buy day-old every year. These are things we are just investigating.
But we could always keep only the hens (ducks, geese) as layers, as we keep the chicken pullets now for our own kitchen. But you're right, the eggs likely would bring good prices in the cities. Thanks for the suggestion! We will definitely follow up on it. As levels of difficulty go, birds are pretty easy. Just keep the foxes away!
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