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I honestly think that preppers have a point. I think that the majority of the population could use a bit more preparation for disaster. A Puerto Rico type situation could happen at any time. My point is that the conspiracy laden and far right rhetoric of may preppers is a turn off
Oops I was quoting your post and gave it positive feedback by mistake clicking the wrong button from my phone.. Oh well
Again, I disagree with you but even though I disagree with you I still respect your first amendment right to have whatever opinion it is that you have.
Its ok to disagree.
The vast majority of preppers I know are not as much "to the right" as they are pro individual freedoms, pro constitution or libertarian.
I personally would self identify as a conservative/libertarian hybrid depending on what the issue is. I also have a live and let live mentality as many preppers do.
And conspiracy theory is merely a matter of perspective. I may genuinely think being concerned of another nation/terrorists/globalist group/deep state whatever launching an EMP or deliberately taking our electric grid down via cyber or physical means, is a serious and legitimate concern. Whereas in your opinion you may disagree and just chalk it up as conspiracy. Thsts your right to do so. But it doesn't inherently make it so.
Mikala maybe you should be more open minded and objective. I've seen Trex2 posts and he offers a valuable and respectful opinion.
You don't have to agree, it's ok to disagree. But there is no reason to instantly discredit what they say.
What specifically has trex said that you are concerned about him or that he does to give preppers a bad name?
How he comes across. He gives his opinions as facts (all preppers are patriots, or vice versa, doesn't really matter), "they see us as non people" (really, is that the definition of cult?), and other stuff I'm not going to go back and bring up.
I don't think he would make a good representative as a spokesman.
I'm not attacking him personally, I don't know his posting history or any of that, I'm just going on how he comes across (to me) on this thread.
The general concept I agree with, we have guns and are prepared for a couple months. Heck, I keep old meds because you never know, there might be a shortage sometime. I know odds and ends, like you can get antibiotics from the fish dept at pet stores, and they are fine for humans... odds and ends, without being too odd.
So I am not discrediting him, and I'm just saying he is kinda the type of person I think of when the "stigma" of preppers is brought up. /shrug
If society takes a real sideways turn? I told DH I'm dead anyway, just from medical conditions without meds. I'm in great physical shape, but only through modern medicine.
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While the normal attack politics coming from the "active topics" link that brings in folks with absolutely no interest in self sufficiency or preparedness, but do have a hard political agenda to push tend to show 2 things.
1, there is an unreasoning stigma against people that for whatever reason and at any level, are kooks if they don't trust the entrenched powers to provide for them in any emergency. And
2, politics have blinded people to the fact there are no absolutes. There are no black and white answers, just an innumerable amount of shades of grey.
For instance, firearms.
While most SS&P types see guns as tools for hunting for food and protecting themselves from both two and four legged predators, the current political mindset is to fear guns as expressions of hostility and anyone who has a weapon is probably a mass murderer just waiting for a chance to decimate thousands of innocent lives.
While that may be the party platform for pelosi and co. It doesn't make it true.
Those who only see weapons would probably be shocked if public school still taught history to find out that firearms are a very recent development in human history, cartridge rifles even newer, and fully automatic rifles didn't exist 80 years ago, but we as a species have managed to slaughter each other in shocking numbers for at least a couple thousand years without them.
I blacksmith, and make tools that just aren't manufactured anymore, and some people want other tools that historically have been very effective weapons. For instance, early man was a hunter/gatherer. A club or thrown rock will kill small game, or a hunter from a rival clan. Tie a sharp rock to your club, you can cut trees for firewood and shelter, or fight off predators and enemies with your new ax, or a metal ax works against armor, and guess what? Modern troops still use hand axes in the field for entry work or disabling enemy transports. (The new combat tomahawks are really something, but basically the same weapon as cavemen brained each other with thousands of years ago.)
Spears allowed us to tackle bigger animals for more meat, or be the king of battle for 3000+ years.
The bow and arrow made it easier to take game from a distance, and flights of arrows made Angincore one of the bloodiest battles of the middle ages.
Swords started out as knives, then sythes for harvesting grain, but add some length and weight, you have a weapon that slaughtered millions through the millennia.
Instead of rockets and cannon, they used scorpions, catapults and ballista to break down wall, send flaming death into fortifications, or better yet, diseased corpses. That's right boys and girls, germ warfare a thousand years ago.
Perhaps my favorite example of modern warfare from the past took place in Greece, the Micenaeans, where a whole town displeased the gods, so the other city-states were ordered to wipe them out. Rather than a battle, they decided over 2500 years ago, to put the roots of a plant, Helibore, into the water supply. Poisoned the whole town. Yep, weapon of mass destruction.
A gun is a tool, just like an ax, or spear or bow and arrow. It isn't the tool that's good or bad, it's the person using it. Too many despots knew an unarmed population is easier to control. Just ask Hitler or Stalin or Mao, it works.
But people are infernally clever, and will devise ways to protect themselves. In occupied Europe during WWII, partisans rose to fight the. Nazis even though they didn't have guns. They knew if you kill a soldier or policeman with a rock or club, you get his weapon.
Gun control s a false flag argument for denegrating people that are self sufficient.
So far, all this thread has proven is that the only reason people are wary of preppers, is because of politics, not reason.
Too bad. Being prepared with a few days of food, some water, a first aid kit, and means to cook food and stay warm could save lives. But instead, some will try to stigmatize those that do prepare just to follow the political agenda of their masters.
Good luck with the next hurricanes, tornado, earthquake, or fill in the blank. I'm sure the government will always be happy to take care of you. Just ask the folks in New Orleans after Katrina, or the folks in San Juan after the mayor siphoned off supplies. I'm sure you'll be just fine.
Well, one very good thing about the Self-Sufficiency and Preparedness forum on City-Data is that it gives survivalists a place to vent. It also definitely gives the rest of us an insight into how their minds work. And thus the "stigma" is born - some of the threads and posts on this forum scare the bajeebers out of me. Seriously, I'm far more worried about an American survivalist conspiracy obsessed gun nut (like some posting on this forum or in the guns sub-forum) shooting me up than I am about any other possible unusual threat to my health and safety.
The rest of us just enjoy leading our lives in whatever way we enjoy living. Some of us have fun learning and using historic tools and methods. I belong to several groups that teach and support such skills and lifestyles. Some of us raise small grains, vegetables and livestock. Some make soap and candles. Some butcher our own meat. Some dry and can fruit, vegetables, and meat. Some plant and tend fruit and nut trees. Some spin and sew and weave and make pottery and baskets. Some have wells and fire pits and smokehouses and wood burning stoves. Some have windmills and solar panels and homes built to make the most of local conditions. Some people even have learned such difficult skills as operating steam powered railroad engines and glass making and boat building! We barter skills and goods and services among ourselves. Outhouses don't faze us! Most of us have only a few of these skills, but we know others who have the other skills.
We have a good time doing all of this NOW, without thinking about doing these things to be able to survive some awful event, and without thinking of ourselves as an Us against some kind of Them. Although we have political opinions, we don't obsess about politics. We would never call ourselves "survivalists" or "preppers". Those words are completely associated with the lunatic extremist conspiracy believing gun nutty fringe. And the reasons those words have such associations have been clearly demonstrated by some of the posts in this thread.
Mekala43 asked: "they see us as non people" (really, is that the definition of cult?)
No, it isn't the definition of cult, but it is indicative of how they see me.
If they called me a pig, I wouldn't assume they see me as having four feet and an appetite for mixed vegetables, but it would be indicative of how they see me.
I am, in forums, kind of a counter-puncher. Take a deliberately hostile stance against me and you will get deliberate hostility (or, in some cases, some weird humor - and BTW, loved your alternative definition of BOB) in return. Discuss something scientifically, and I will discuss science in return.
I can play the spokes person role, and have done so from time to time, in non prepper forums, but that isn't what I am here for. At least not this month. (And it isn't my normal mode, normal modes for me are engineer and teacher, I solve problems and teach others how to overcome obstacles) I am here to see if I can turn up some gold nuggets, and in panning for gold, you have to stir things up a little
While the normal attack politics coming from the "active topics" link that brings in folks with absolutely no interest in self sufficiency or preparedness, but do have a hard political agenda to push tend to show 2 things.
1, there is an unreasoning stigma against people that for whatever reason and at any level, are kooks if they don't trust the entrenched powers to provide for them in any emergency. And
...
So far, all this thread has proven is that the only reason people are wary of preppers, is because of politics, not reason.
Too bad. Being prepared with a few days of food, some water, a first aid kit, and means to cook food and stay warm could save lives. But instead, some will try to stigmatize those that do prepare just to follow the political agenda of their masters.
...
This is the most obviously accurate assessment I have seen here in a long time.
They come here and state their prejudices as though they are fact, and
some wear their hatred of us on their sleeve, and don't know it.
This thread also shows that many of those people will post
to the thread without reading much of the thread.
This thread also shows that many of those people will post
to the thread without reading much of the thread.
Why would anyone wade through the 15 pages of swill in this thread?
Rational people make contingency plans for events that could happen in their lives. The more likely the event is to occur, the more planning you do. I'm not going to contingency plan for the Zombie Apocalypse. I'm on the coast so I have a pretty detailed contingency plan for a hurricane. I'm also in pretty good shape for a blizzard that shuts down roads for a week or an ice storm that takes out electricity for several weeks. It would be ugly but I'm OK for a Great Depression-level economic collapse.
I think the stigma for preppers is the amount of planning and spending they do for an event that is unlikely to happen while failing to contingency plan for events that are far more likely to occur. As a hobby? Sure. Everybody needs a hobby.
The most likely end of our current US based society is a slow dwindling, not a sudden single catastrophic event. Thus, the best way to prepare is really financial. Safe investments that are hard to tax. Are we likely to need stored food, guns, fuel and the like? No. Maybe our great great great grandchildren will need them. If there is a catastrophic event the most likely result of a lifetime of prepping is that you and all your stored up goods will be vaporized, lost, ruined, etc, or you will just die of a plague or other illness. Sure the preparedness thing can be fun. It is a neat hobby, but to make it your whole life or to allow it to make you think you are somehow better than other people or more likely to survive is sad. That is where the stigma comes from. Enjoy your hobby, but do not make it your whole life and all of what you are, do not wish for a disaster so you can show all the naysayers how smart you were and how dumb they were. Do not try to force your ideas on anyone else. It is cool to be able to live off the grid. It is nice to be prepared to get by comfortably if there is a blizzard, sudden loss of power in your area, or something simlar. It is great to teach other people basic skills that have been lost. It is a sickness to wish for a catastrophe so you can make use of your stuff and your years of preparation and training. .
But in such a society, would our currency and money even mean anything?
In "The Stand" by Stephen King, there are several mentions of thousands of dollars just laying around in the streets because the survivors quickly understood that money was just pieces of paper. And the society which assigned it value basically ceased to exist. Anything and everything one could need to survive was just there for the taking.
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