Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
From Clemson's website, tuition for the 2001-2002 school year increased by 42% or $1,500. In the following years, tuition and fees increased 15%, 19%, 13% and 13%. I get that engineering requires expensive space but, competing with Chapel Hill and others for top business professors is also expensive. And, Carolina's engineering department, while not as large as Clemson, also needs additional space. Just on the undergraduate level, if Carolina were able to charge the same rate, that would equate to an additional $36m in funding. That would go a long way the building the aerospace center that Haley has refused to help with state funds evenhough Darla Moore started the center with $5m. I don't think Haley would tell Barker no on an aerospace building.
As for the rankings, the practices mentioned above are exactly why Hess rankings are not the ones which a BOT should use as a guiding principle.
From Clemson's website, tuition for the 2001-2002 school year increased by 42% or $1,500. In the following years, tuition and fees increased 15%, 19%, 13% and 13%. I get that engineering requires expensive space but, competing with Chapel Hill and others for top business professors is also expensive. And, Carolina's engineering department, while not as large as Clemson, also needs additional space. Just on the undergraduate level, if Carolina were able to charge the same rate, that would equate to an additional $36m in funding. That would go a long way the building the aerospace center that Haley has refused to help with state funds evenhough Darla Moore started the center with $5m. I don't think Haley would tell Barker no on an aerospace building.
I don't need to see the difference in tuition price. I'm aware of that. Heck, I paid it!
I want to see where South Carolina and Clemson both asked for the same percentage increase, and the state's subsequent response. Logically, I would say that Clemson asked for more over a long period of time and it eventually separated itself from the pack.
From Clemson's website, tuition for the 2001-2002 school year increased by 42% or $1,500. In the following years, tuition and fees increased 15%, 19%, 13% and 13%. I get that engineering requires expensive space but, competing with Chapel Hill and others for top business professors is also expensive. And, Carolina's engineering department, while not as large as Clemson, also needs additional space. Just on the undergraduate level, if Carolina were able to charge the same rate, that would equate to an additional $36m in funding. That would go a long way the building the aerospace center that Haley has refused to help with state funds evenhough Darla Moore started the center with $5m. I don't think Haley would tell Barker no on an aerospace building.
As for the rankings, the practices mentioned above are exactly why Hess rankings are not the ones which a BOT should use as a guiding principle.
Adding to the above, Carolina's tuition increases in the same time frame are 5.1%, 22.6%, 15.9%, 11% and 14%. Since 2000, the gap in tuition between the two schools has grown from roughly even to about 2,000 annually. That is a large difference in a decade. The question is why? And, what are the additional funds supporting? At Carolina, Maintaining a large medical school, a large business school, a law school, engineering, pharmacy and other programs is expensive, especially when state funding drops to 8% of the budget. So, I know you got irritated earlier followed by Gsupstate's trash comment but, it is a valid question. Is Clemson's extra cash going to ICAR, Project One, the center in Charleston and Anderson and the new architecture building in Charleston? Gville, if you don't have an answer, say so but, don't post some trash defensive comment.
As a note about Innovista and ICAR, neither have been large job generators. Innovista was hit hard by the recession while ICAR attracted companies already in the Greenville footprint. So, while both are good concepts, I would not say the either one has done very well overall.
I don't need to see the difference in tuition price. I'm aware of that. Heck, I paid it!
I want to see where South Carolina and Clemson both asked for the same percentage increase, and the state's subsequent response. Logically, I would say that Clemson asked for more over a long period of time and it eventually separated itself from the pack.
If you want to dig through state appropriation meeting minutes, go for it. The fact that the gap has widened so much in a decade tells you the story. THe state has to approve tuition increases for state schools, Carolina was able to pass a 22% increase but, has been kept at lower levels. Clemson has separated itself from the pack in tuition.
The good news for Carolina is that in spite of this, our programs across the board have great national reputations. And, the alumni are stepping up with the largest fund raising in he state's history. This political manipulation will sort itself out over time.
Gville, if you don't have an answer, say so but, don't post some trash defensive comment.
Here's what I'm seeing you state:
Clemson and Carolina both approach the state with requests for tuition increases. IF Both request the same amount, we'll say 20%. The state approves Clemson's proposal of 20%. Meanwhile, Carolina is told they can only increase their's by 12%.
The problem is: I don't see this happening. Each school decides how much they can ask for. If the schools don't ask for the same amount of an increase, then how can one be the victim?
Clemson and Carolina both approach the state with requests for tuition increases. IF Both request the same amount, we'll say 20%. The state approves Clemson's proposal of 20%. Meanwhile, Carolina is told they can only increase their's by 12%.
The problem is: I don't see this happening. Each school decides how much they can ask for. If the schools don't ask for the same amount of an increase, then how can one be the victim?
Noons is playing the victim card. But, to look at it another way, if one school proposes an increase of 41% and one 20%, the 41% request should be questioned as to why? Absent politics, that is a basic budget practice. And, following that with consecutive double digit increases should also be questioned, especially when the tuition gap between the schools is 20%. Politically, someone was not asking the right questions at the state level, most likely intentional. I agree to an extent that if I am Carolina's president, I am asking for a 50% increase one year. But, the state has made a blanket statement that all schools should maintain the same level of increase in tuition, not the best way to address the problem. In essence, schools are now punished for financial discipline. Luckily, Carolina is raising record levels of money and has earned record levels of research dollars to offset SC politics. But, as much As it would hurt students, Carolina should be priced higher to help fund facility upgrades at a faster rate.
Do you have any idea how the additional funds are being used? The ratios between the two schools are not so different to suggest that the extra cash would be spent on instruction. I suspect that the money is being used to fund projects around the state which may or may not be sustainable long term.
Folks have criticized Barker but, he know how to play the political system in SC to push these situations through the GA. For the state's sake, the bets on ICAR and Charleston facilities better create jobs that are new to SC.
Location: South Carolina - staying with brother in Columbia
596 posts, read 937,891 times
Reputation: 188
i do think clemson focuses too much on research and many of my professors seemed like teaching was just something they had to do, they just wanted to be working on their research projects.
i also feel like president barker has been jacking up tuition on purpose because he feels a higher price tag makes a uni more prestitigious.
engineering at clemson is as good as mit or cal tech, and easily better than any ivy league program.
you don't even go to these schools that you gush over and you claim they are superior? how the heck do you know? ivy league is real good at branding but their education isn't any better than any other school.
Out of a thread full of pure, "My school is better than your school" silliness, this one takes the cake.
Clemson is a great state school that does very well in traditional land grant school degree areas like agricultural sciences and engineering - I'd say that may be at the cost of their basic academic standards, but that's what the better liberal arts schools are for and not part this discussion. Anyway, are you asserting that Clemson's engineering program is better than MIT, Cal Tech, Cornell, or CMU? Seriously, with a straight face?
Location: South Carolina - staying with brother in Columbia
596 posts, read 937,891 times
Reputation: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mon
Out of a thread full of pure, "My school is better than your school" silliness, this one takes the cake.
Clemson is a great state school that does very well in traditional land grant school degree areas like agricultural sciences and engineering - I'd say that may be at the cost of their basic academic standards, but that's what the better liberal arts schools are for and not part this discussion. Anyway, are you stating that Clemson's engineering program is better than MIT, Cal Tech, Cornell, or CMU? Seriously, with a straight face?
I'm a mechanical engineer. I think I know some stuff about engineering programs meanwhile you are some liberal arts grad gushing over some schools you know nothing about. do you even have a college degree?
do you think engineering is different at differnet schools? it's the same topics, and clemson hires professors who go to these schools that you think are so superior. do you think all the grads of these few select schools (always in new england and california it seems) can find teaching jobs at those schools or do they branch out and take jobs at engineering schools elsewhere.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
