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Hi everyone. I will be attending nursing school at Barnes-Jewish College in September, 2012 and we are relocating from Florida. My husband has family in the area and used to live in STL, so we decided to move "back." We have 2 kids, one in elementary school and the other a high school graduate still living at home, and a medium sized dog. My husband works from home, so our main concerns are 1) good schools, 2) access to public transportation, and 3) a safe, walkable neighborhood close to restaurants and shops. We like to bike and walk to restaurants or to grab a coffee. We do have a car but our daughter doesn't drive so she definitely needs to be close to a bus or metrolink. We need to stay around $1400 per month TOTAL, so if we pick a neighborhood with not great schools then this needs to include tuition. We are fine with a 2 Bedroom.
We have 3 scenarios and would truly appreciate input from everyone. I have only been to STL once on a fact-finding weekend so I am pretty new.
1. Initially we had decided on the CWE for its proximity to BJC (I could walk) and really liked the Towne House apartments on Lindell. We would go with private school, and although we are not Catholic we think the Catholic school at the Basilica Cathedral looks interesting. We know there would be an apartment available for us in August and they do accept dogs. This definitely would be the top of our budget. Does anyone know this building and/or this school? Is this option worth maxing out our budget?
2. After our trip we read a lot about the Clayton schools and thought we might have better luck being just over the city line into Clayton. From my research the school look excellent and I have read that the Moorlands and DeMun areas are recommended here a lot. What are the differences? It seems difficult to find a rental that accepts dogs. Are the rentals competitive in these areas to the extent that there are many people trying to rent a single unit (and would it be possible to rent sight-unseen?) Is it problematic to rent from individual landlords versus from a large apartment complex?
3. I have also seen recommendations for University City and without knowing the area it seems complicated to figure out from afar. I gather that the Loop is more of an undergrad, 20-something area with restaurants and night life, but there are lots of other threads about specific neighborhoods such as University Park and the streets named after colleges (Amherst, etc). Are there pockets of U City that are more 40-something friendly, walkable to public transport and restaurants, and that map to good public schools? How long would it take to commute to BJC via bus/metro? How far is this area from the "retail of the burbs" like Trader Joe's and Target?
And finally (it's a lot, sorry!!), is there anything about rentals in St Louis that we might not know, or anything to avoid? I grew up in the Northeast and our area had its share of "slumlords" who charged high rent in beautiful buildings close to the universities but did not maintain the units and facilities, as there was always a steady stream of people eager to rent a place. I am worried about that churn and burn mentality close to Wash U and BJC.
Thanks for your help!! We're excited to be moving to St Louis!
Unless I'm missing something, how can two adults and two kids manage with a two bedroom? I know two kids close in age could do it, but you have a kid in elementary school and a HS grad sharing a room? I think you'll need a three bedroom unless the HS grad isn't coming with you.
You are looking in some awesome areas but I worry about your budget. These areas are all extremely desirable and rents can be high. While I am not super-familar with the STL rental market, it seems to me the most affordable option may be U.City, which has just an OK school district.
Are you planning on settling in St. Louis permanently? I think you could consider buying if you are. The real estate market in St. Louis is ripe for buying right now and you could find something closer to your monthly budget range if you buy.
1. I don't know anything about the specific complex, but the area is fantastic and my gut reaction is that, yes, it might just be worth maxing out your budget. A lot of non-Catholics send their kids to the parochial schools. My SO and I have debated whether we would feel entirely comfortable sending our (as-of-yet non-existent) children to a Catholic school, but if you can get there, I think it's likely to be a good option. Additionally, while harder to get into at her age, there are several well respected magnet and charter options that would be worth looking into -- even if not for that first year.
2. My gut is that Clayton is likely the easier solution for you given the school situation and the area is really lovely. I'm not as familar with the neighborhood specifics as others here, particularly Moorlander (guess where he lives? lol). You're likely to push your budget here as well, but the schools are spectacular. For what it's worth, I've lived in both apartment complexes and private rentals, and can honestly say they both have their good and bad points, but I haven't found private landlords to be anyting worth shying away from.
3. U City isn't really all that complicated -- rent a house/apartment in the Flynn Park attendance boundaries and your whole neighborhood will be littered with families. Jackson Park, while less well respected and with lower test scores than Flynn Park, is still considered acceptable by most middle-class folks. The Loop certainly has its fair share of students nearby, but it doesn't skew significantly younger than CWE.
Unless I'm missing something, how can two adults and two kids manage with a two bedroom? I know two kids close in age could do it, but you have a kid in elementary school and a HS grad sharing a room? I think you'll need a three bedroom unless the HS grad isn't coming with you.
You are looking in some awesome areas but I worry about your budget. These areas are all extremely desirable and rents can be high. While I am not super-familar with the STL rental market, it seems to me the most affordable option may be U.City, which has just an OK school district.
Are you planning on settling in St. Louis permanently? I think you could consider buying if you are. The real estate market in St. Louis is ripe for buying right now and you could find something closer to your monthly budget range if you buy.
Maybe him sleeping in the LR for a while is the best way to get him to willingly leave
I understand the draw to the CWE and closeness to Barnes, but rent plus one child's Catholic school tuition on $1400 per month sounds like a bit of a stretch. Even if the school only cost $400/mo (which seems too low although I admittedly don't know much about Catholic school prices these days), $1000 would be kind of a bare bones rental for a family of 4 in that area.
U City's schools are okay at the elementary level, but most families with financial means either leave U City by the time their kid finishes 5th grade, or else send their kid to private school from then on out (or even earlier), because Brittany Woods middle school, as I understand it, is pretty rough.
Clayton would be a good option - the best of the three you posit in my view. The public schools are very highly regarded (and that's somewhat of an understatement). De Mun is great because it has a lively entertainment district just off Concordia Park, and Forest Park just east of it. But alas, not easy access to the Metrolink station that would drop you off right at Barnes. Closest stop is Skinker and Forest Park Parkway, about 1 mile north of that area. Moorlands has a small but quite nice shopping district (on Wydown, just east of Hanley) and is perhaps a bit more convenient to the closest Metrolink Station (at Central and Forest Park Parkway) but still a good 0.5-1.0 mi walk depending where you rent in the Moorlands. The further south of Wydown you go in the Moorlands, the longer your walk to the Central/FPP Metrolink station. For a really convenient commuting option in Clayton, you might be able to rent something from one of the multi-units on the western end of the Davis Place neighborhood or along Brentwood across from Shaw Park (consider the area bounded by Meramec-east, Brentwood-west, Forest Park Parkway-north, and Watkins-south). That might be the first area I would look. Some beautiful 2 and 4 unit buildings on the side streets just east of Brentwood blvd and some larger multi-units facing the park and the Juvenile Court on Brentwood itself.
We moved here about six months ago and are renting at the Dorchester right of Skinker Blvd- across from Forest Park. It's a great area- safe and lots of options around. However, I'm pretty sure it's not in the Clayton District- even though the Clayton district line is a street over. Also, the rent may be too high, 1Bd are about 1200; and 2's range about 1500-1700 i believe. The downside to this neighborhood is parking- it's awful unless you have a reserved spot. If you have to park on the street- forget it!
You can sometimes find a rental in Richmond Heights in the clayton boundaries, but i would recommend looking at a sex offender map because for some reason there are a lot of them over there!
Also, i hear that Brentwood has wonderful schools, and i have a few co-workers that own there that say it is very safe. If your husband works from home and you'll be working at Barnes- can you drive yourself to work with the car? That may make things easier for you as far as where your options to live are. Webster Groves is really great too- with excellent public schools (not as great as Clayton).
If you're looking at apartments try both the "for rent".com type site and craigslist. I would second the other opinion on buying a home if you can- it's a lot cheaper to own than it is to rent here- i think part of that is because of the influx of college students.. good luck!
I have been doing a LOT of research in the recent past regarding the Clayton/U City border, as it pertains to schools, because per my research, the difference in school quality is stark. Clayton/Richmond Heights and Brentwood districts perform substantially over both U City and the CWE. The one exception is Metro High School next to CWE, which is a charter school, however, since your child is an elementary school student, this condition is not applicable to you.
^That's not exactly true. Metro is a magnet school, and it's elementary school equivalents are Kennard and Mallinckrodt and Junior High is at McKinley. These schools are all excellent but require that your child is gifted and that they are chosen through the lottery system to get in. Truthfully, if your child is trying to get in those schools, you should have a backup (private school) as the regular St. Louis public schools are not an option for most parents.
^Metro is a selective enrollment magnet not a charter, but the point is still the same. Schools will definitely be trickier in St. Louis. If buying in U City, the schools would be of a bigger concern but if they can rent a place in the Flynn Park attendance boundaries there's little reason to be concerned about U City's schools at this point.
Thanks to everyone for your replies - lots to think about! We lived in Europe for a while where we lived much smaller, and our plan is to convert the dining room (or dining area of the LR) into a 3rd BR for our youngest. Think Ikea!
Thanks for the suggestions about buying - it makes sense but we're not sure how long we're staying, a lot depends on how it goes at Barnes. From what you guys are saying, it seems that Clayton might indeed be the best choice. So, that brings more questions:
zach_33, thanks for the info about the metrolink stations. What about the bus? My idea location would have only a few blocks walk to transport (thinking about snow!) I've lived in places where buses are safe, clean options and in places where they are scary. How do they fare in STL? Are they safe alternatives for young people or women traveling alone? I will definitely look into the area you suggested in Davis Place (had not heard of that neighborhood before) and along Brentwood: is that a walkable area with restaurants and that same kind of neighborhood feel that I think Moorlands and Demun have?
jribe - We did think about Brentwood but thought it seemed a bit far into the suburbs for our taste. We are hoping to have a more urban experience as we live in the burbs now in Florida and are looking for a change of pace. I love the Dorchester but unfortunately it's within STL city school district - apparently the boundary is right across the street. We found something similar in the CWE but I'm getting scared of the private school thing with our budget, especially if we end up staying for a few years.
This is all great information, thanks so much. Please keep it coming!
-jen
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