Madison or STL-need advice! (St. Louis, St. Charles: apartment, insurance, violent crime)

[Melindalou7]

Hello all! Really glad to have found these forums-they're a big help when you're looking to relocate. I'm currently in a position where my job is being moved to either Madison, WI or St. Louis, MO. Office considerations aside (my company's HQ is in Madison & the office in STL is smaller, but on the West side of the city), I'm having a horrible time deciding which is better, namely because I know they are totally different in almost every aspect. STL is a major metro city & Madison is a mid size northern Midwest town. I'm wanting opinions, though I know that, yes, ultimately it's my choice to make. A bit about me:

-I'm 28, engaged and childless.

-I currently reside in Des Moines, IA. and, from what I can tell Madison isn't that much different. That being said, while I like Iowa, I DESPISE winter. I can deal with it for the sake of a good quality of life since I've been dealing with it for 8 years now, but still not a fan in anyway. Definitely won't be out skiing or sledding or anything else that involves interaction with the cold.

-I'm originally from Evansville, IN., so in terms of climate and regional culture, I'm familiar with what STL has to offer. Even after all this time in Iowa, I still consider myself a southern Midwest woman and am most familiar with that culture. Plus, I'd be a lot closer in distance to family, which is nice.

-I have 3 dogs, 2 of which are large. While dog parks are great and both cities offer them, I really want a place that provides trails and paths to walk them. Doesn't have to be nature-filled and tree-lined, but walking the parking lots at the local strip mall isn't going to cut it for me.

My concerns about both places:

-STL crime. I handle property claims for the STL region currently, so I'm somewhat familiar with the bad & good areas. And I have common sense-it's not like I'd go jogging alone at 1AM. I know any large city has crime, I just want to know if it's an everyday fact of life or something that can, for the most part, be avoided-without having to move to Troy.

-Medical facilities in STL. In Des Moines, our major hospitals have clinics in various locations around town with labs and different Dr.'s. I've seen a similar set up in Madison, but wasn't sure about STL. If I live in Ballwin and my insurance is affiliated with Barnes-Jewish, do I have to drive into the city to see a Dr or are there clinics around town?

-Traffic & general population congestion in STL. As I said, I live In Des Moines and come from an even smaller town in Indiana. I did live in Phoenix for 2 years...and hated it (except for the weather). Just WAY too many people for my taste. Obviously I would look to live near where I work so the commute wouldn't kill me, but I'm a little concerned about being overwhelmed by the size of STL.

-Housing & living costs in Madison. I'm trying to find an apartment that takes large dogs and won't break my budget and that's a little like trying to find an invisibility cloak. And even when I look at houses, I'm a little surprised at how little you get for your money. My current salary is modest-$50K-just how expensive is it to live in Madison?

-Shopping in Madison. And I don't mean brand names or anything. It seems like, for the most part, people there live in suburbs and commute into the city. While there's a lot in Madison, some of these suburbs I looked at have almost nothing in terms of grocery & general goods stores. Not that a Walmart on every corner is a good thing, but is it easy to get supplies or do you have to make a 30 minute trek to Madison every time you need toilet paper?

-Job Opportunities and the economy in both places. Though I have a job, my fiancé would relocate with me and he'd need something. We currently work for the same company, so there's the chance he'll be able to find something with them, but, if he doesn't, do both cities offer a robust job market? I realize given the current state of the economy, now is not the best time to gauge job markets, but do your best on this. And looking 5-10 years down the road, do you see the economies of these cities improving or getting worse?

I'm pretty flexible in terms of what's important to me. I just want a place that's safe and has some economic security with a decent cost of living. Would love warmer weather, but will deal with it for the sake of a good quality of life. Also, I have visited both places, so I've seen, to an extent, what they have to offer. Now I just want to hear from ppl who actually live in these cities and can give me their perspective. I appreciate and welcome all opinions and advice! Thank you!

[wustu87]

Hey, I'm actually from Madison, but I left when I was itty bitty and have no recollection of it, so all I can help you with is St. Louis!

Crime in St. Louis as a whole will always exist, but in reality much of the city and most of the county is perfectly safe. The topic has been covered numerous times in these forums so the bottom line is simple -- worrying about safety and crime in most of the St. Louis area is not an issue.

As for medical offices they are everywhere. BJC is huge here and just about everybody accepts their insurance. Your doctor may be affiliated with Barnes-Jewish hospital and see patients in offices in Chesterfield, St. Peters or in Illinois. You do not have to drive to Barnes to see a doctor, you are likely to find a doctors' office close to where you live.

Traffic in mid-County is currently a bit of a mess due to the highway 40 shutdown, but it is still not too bad to get around. I would never consider St. Louis "overwhelming" traffic wise especially compared to cities like Houston or Chicago which seem to have a billion highways going every which way. And be it good or bad, there are many St. Charles or St. Louis County residents who rarely travel more than a few miles from their homes since everything they desire is right there within a 5 mile radius. I know of people who never drive on the highways here and are perfectly happy.

As for the St. Louis economy it is hurting like everywhere else. Manufacturing positions have long been dwindling and most of the new growth has been in health care and biotechnology. In today's market it is hard to tell how things will be in a few years, but St. Louis will likely do as well as any other midwestern city. I personally do not know what all there is in Madison besides the state capital and one very large university, and I have no idea which location would provide better long term job opportunities.

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by Melindalou7

Hello all! Really glad to have found these forums-they're a big help when you're looking to relocate. I'm currently in a position where my job is being moved to either Madison, WI or St. Louis, MO. Office considerations aside (my company's HQ is in Madison & the office in STL is smaller, but on the West side of the city), I'm having a horrible time deciding which is better, namely because I know they are totally different in almost every aspect. STL is a major metro city & Madison is a mid size northern Midwest town. I'm wanting opinions, though I know that, yes, ultimately it's my choice to make. A bit about me:

-I'm 28, engaged and childless.

-I currently reside in Des Moines, IA. and, from what I can tell Madison isn't that much different. That being said, while I like Iowa, I DESPISE winter. I can deal with it for the sake of a good quality of life since I've been dealing with it for 8 years now, but still not a fan in anyway. Definitely won't be out skiing or sledding or anything else that involves interaction with the cold.

-I'm originally from Evansville, IN., so in terms of climate and regional culture, I'm familiar with what STL has to offer. Even after all this time in Iowa, I still consider myself a southern Midwest woman and am most familiar with that culture. Plus, I'd be a lot closer in distance to family, which is nice.

-I have 3 dogs, 2 of which are large. While dog parks are great and both cities offer them, I really want a place that provides trails and paths to walk them. Doesn't have to be nature-filled and tree-lined, but walking the parking lots at the local strip mall isn't going to cut it for me.

My concerns about both places:

-STL crime. I handle property claims for the STL region currently, so I'm somewhat familiar with the bad & good areas. And I have common sense-it's not like I'd go jogging alone at 1AM. I know any large city has crime, I just want to know if it's an everyday fact of life or something that can, for the most part, be avoided-without having to move to Troy.

-Medical facilities in STL. In Des Moines, our major hospitals have clinics in various locations around town with labs and different Dr.'s. I've seen a similar set up in Madison, but wasn't sure about STL. If I live in Ballwin and my insurance is affiliated with Barnes-Jewish, do I have to drive into the city to see a Dr or are there clinics around town?

-Traffic & general population congestion in STL. As I said, I live In Des Moines and come from an even smaller town in Indiana. I did live in Phoenix for 2 years...and hated it (except for the weather). Just WAY too many people for my taste. Obviously I would look to live near where I work so the commute wouldn't kill me, but I'm a little concerned about being overwhelmed by the size of STL.

-Housing & living costs in Madison. I'm trying to find an apartment that takes large dogs and won't break my budget and that's a little like trying to find an invisibility cloak. And even when I look at houses, I'm a little surprised at how little you get for your money. My current salary is modest-$50K-just how expensive is it to live in Madison?

-Shopping in Madison. And I don't mean brand names or anything. It seems like, for the most part, people there live in suburbs and commute into the city. While there's a lot in Madison, some of these suburbs I looked at have almost nothing in terms of grocery & general goods stores. Not that a Walmart on every corner is a good thing, but is it easy to get supplies or do you have to make a 30 minute trek to Madison every time you need toilet paper?

-Job Opportunities and the economy in both places. Though I have a job, my fiancé would relocate with me and he'd need something. We currently work for the same company, so there's the chance he'll be able to find something with them, but, if he doesn't, do both cities offer a robust job market? I realize given the current state of the economy, now is not the best time to gauge job markets, but do your best on this. And looking 5-10 years down the road, do you see the economies of these cities improving or getting worse?

I'm pretty flexible in terms of what's important to me. I just want a place that's safe and has some economic security with a decent cost of living. Would love warmer weather, but will deal with it for the sake of a good quality of life. Also, I have visited both places, so I've seen, to an extent, what they have to offer. Now I just want to hear from ppl who actually live in these cities and can give me their perspective. I appreciate and welcome all opinions and advice! Thank you!

Do a search on this forum. We did a comparison thread this past year and covered a lot of it.

[Central Illinois 1]

I have lived in both areas and here are a few comparisons (at least from my perspective):

Crime - North STL City and East St. Louis have lots of violent crime. You will wnat to stay away from those areas. The remainder of STL and STL County are more comparable to Madison when it comes to crime (i.e., pretty safe overall and definitely very safe in the smaller West County suburbs of STL).

Health Care - Very comparable. Both areas are major health care centers for their regions.

Living Costs - Very comparable for what you get.

Shopping - STL wins out by a mile in this category.

Job Opportunities - Not sure. This seems to change all the time...Are they good anywhere right now?

Traffic- Generally alot worse in STL as it is a much larger area. However, STL is a breeze compared to places like Chicago or LA.

Weather - STL has MUCH MUCH better weather six or seven months out of the year. It is amazing how much warmer STL is in the winter and how much earlier spring comes (70s in STL and still 30s in Madison is not an uncommon occurrance Feb. - April).

Progressive attitudes - Madison wins out hands down - no question about it!! STL is a conservative area overall and, in many ways, seems to have a very conservative southern flavor when it comes to social issues and politics. There is also a fairly well-defined class system in STL. In STL, it DOES matter which prep school you attended (even if it was 30 years ago) and what part of the county you live in. I did not detect this type of attitude so much in Madison.

Overall: Given a choice, I would go to Madison, though STL does have some advantages.

[Brickmama]

I find it difficult to compare the 2 since STL is a big city and Madison is more of a medium sized college town. If you want big city life move to STL. If you want more of a laid back atmosphere then Madison may work out better.

[SCB123]

Originally Posted by Melindalou7

Hello all! Really glad to have found these forums-they're a big help when you're looking to relocate. I'm currently in a position where my job is being moved to either Madison, WI or St. Louis, MO. Office considerations aside (my company's HQ is in Madison & the office in STL is smaller, but on the West side of the city), I'm having a horrible time deciding which is better, namely because I know they are totally different in almost every aspect. STL is a major metro city & Madison is a mid size northern Midwest town. I'm wanting opinions, though I know that, yes, ultimately it's my choice to make. A bit about me:

-I'm 28, engaged and childless.

-I currently reside in Des Moines, IA. and, from what I can tell Madison isn't that much different. That being said, while I like Iowa, I DESPISE winter. I can deal with it for the sake of a good quality of life since I've been dealing with it for 8 years now, but still not a fan in anyway. Definitely won't be out skiing or sledding or anything else that involves interaction with the cold.

-I'm originally from Evansville, IN., so in terms of climate and regional culture, I'm familiar with what STL has to offer. Even after all this time in Iowa, I still consider myself a southern Midwest woman and am most familiar with that culture. Plus, I'd be a lot closer in distance to family, which is nice.

-I have 3 dogs, 2 of which are large. While dog parks are great and both cities offer them, I really want a place that provides trails and paths to walk them. Doesn't have to be nature-filled and tree-lined, but walking the parking lots at the local strip mall isn't going to cut it for me.

My concerns about both places:

-STL crime. I handle property claims for the STL region currently, so I'm somewhat familiar with the bad & good areas. And I have common sense-it's not like I'd go jogging alone at 1AM. I know any large city has crime, I just want to know if it's an everyday fact of life or something that can, for the most part, be avoided-without having to move to Troy.

-Medical facilities in STL. In Des Moines, our major hospitals have clinics in various locations around town with labs and different Dr.'s. I've seen a similar set up in Madison, but wasn't sure about STL. If I live in Ballwin and my insurance is affiliated with Barnes-Jewish, do I have to drive into the city to see a Dr or are there clinics around town?

-Traffic & general population congestion in STL. As I said, I live In Des Moines and come from an even smaller town in Indiana. I did live in Phoenix for 2 years...and hated it (except for the weather). Just WAY too many people for my taste. Obviously I would look to live near where I work so the commute wouldn't kill me, but I'm a little concerned about being overwhelmed by the size of STL.

-Housing & living costs in Madison. I'm trying to find an apartment that takes large dogs and won't break my budget and that's a little like trying to find an invisibility cloak. And even when I look at houses, I'm a little surprised at how little you get for your money. My current salary is modest-$50K-just how expensive is it to live in Madison?

-Shopping in Madison. And I don't mean brand names or anything. It seems like, for the most part, people there live in suburbs and commute into the city. While there's a lot in Madison, some of these suburbs I looked at have almost nothing in terms of grocery & general goods stores. Not that a Walmart on every corner is a good thing, but is it easy to get supplies or do you have to make a 30 minute trek to Madison every time you need toilet paper?

-Job Opportunities and the economy in both places. Though I have a job, my fiancé would relocate with me and he'd need something. We currently work for the same company, so there's the chance he'll be able to find something with them, but, if he doesn't, do both cities offer a robust job market? I realize given the current state of the economy, now is not the best time to gauge job markets, but do your best on this. And looking 5-10 years down the road, do you see the economies of these cities improving or getting worse?

I'm pretty flexible in terms of what's important to me. I just want a place that's safe and has some economic security with a decent cost of living. Would love warmer weather, but will deal with it for the sake of a good quality of life. Also, I have visited both places, so I've seen, to an extent, what they have to offer. Now I just want to hear from ppl who actually live in these cities and can give me their perspective. I appreciate and welcome all opinions and advice! Thank you!

Hi Melindalou7,

My husband and I moved to STL form California 3 years ago. I grew up in the south, and have had the chance to visit there often over the past 3 years. STL could be referred to as southern like; without the hospitality.

We also live in Ballwin, and we do not like the place. Folks have not represented themselves, or their community in a positive light.

We would go back to California this second if it were in our power to do so. Our opinion has little to do with the winter.

STL is Billy-bob country, and women are not respected here, and the lack of respect for my gender was apparent very soon after we arrived.

You sound like a well educated woman, and I recommend Madison.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

SCB, if you're unhappy, get out of Ballwin. To paint the whole metro area with that brush is just unfair.

[Brickmama]

I have yet to meet a woman that has been mistreated here or discriminated against.

I really would not worry about that too much.

[Brickmama]

Billy Bob country is a phrase for areas in southern states. STL is a northern city and is not in the South.

[aragx6]

I second Brickmama -- never ever have I, as an educated woman, been an any discernible way been discriminated against here. This is straight-up BS from an unhappy transplant. Melinda, if you're curious as to this SCB person's tainted view on things, just read a few of her (or his?) posts.

My knowledge of Madison is pretty limited, though I've heard really good things about it, but that winter ... whew. I live in Chicago right now and it's VERY cold here, and from what I can tell, Madison is typically considerably colder.

The summers in St. Louis are hot indeed, but if you liked Phoenix, they'll seem cool in comparison!

Not sure I've been all that much help, but please let us know if you have more questions. I'm going to dig around the forums after lunch and post a few links to some great threads on St. Louis.