$16 Million Mixed Use Development Proposed for Manlius (Syracuse, Boston: home, construction)
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The long empty Hollowick and Temple Dairy buildings and the recently vacated Express Lincoln Mercury could be redeveloped into an attractive mixed-use retail and office complex according to the Post-Standard. The Manlius Planning & Zoning board which has a reputation of being anti-development actually broke out in applause when the project was unveiled by the developers. This is one of the most attractive proposals I've seen in Syracuse. Not only does it incorporate Vision Manlius guidelines with parking behind the structures but also blends in nicely with the historical architecture of the village. Best of all, the project is sustainable in that it's redeveloping previously occupied building lots within the village limits as opposed to some of the more recent projects on Route 92 near Mallard's Landing.
I saw a sign inferring something like this a few days ago and wondered what might happen... there's also major construction going on between the florist and gas station on Fayette Street. Demo was done last week and they're already done grading the soil, in preparation for who knows what. Any idea of what's going on there?
I have to say that I'm very excited for the new plans... Manlius is so much more than wealthy people in upper-upper class developments. I can't wait to start seeing more people walk around the village- it's beautiful!
I'm in agreement with both of you. My friend Lonnie Chu of Walkable Eastwood, on the other hand, grew up in Manlius and sees many problems with the plan - which she details in her response to the article on syracuse.com
I'll have to respectfully disagree with her on this one. That section is currently an eyesore in an area that's long been ripe for intelligent development. Yes... there will need to be adequate parking provided because plenty of people who live outside the village proper will want to shop there. But the overall concept is a good one that I've seen done elsewhere and it works. People really walk from store to store and spend both time and money in such developments.
Now if we could just get a developer to do that on a larger scale with Shoppingtown....
I'm in agreement with both of you. My friend Lonnie Chu of Walkable Eastwood, on the other hand, grew up in Manlius and sees many problems with the plan - which she details in her response to the article on syracuse.com
I read most of Lonnie's responses as snark - "stupid" rules and "stupid" town being correlations to what Eastwood's guidelines are repeatedly called. I infer that largely from the sentence which follows, about Skaneateles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LonnieChu@Syracuse.com
They didn’t tear it down. They kept it walkable, despite the pressures of all that oh-so-annoying traffic. They “allowed” old people to grow old right there in the village, unlike Fayetteville, which couldn’t have any of that. There’s a senior center and a senior home in the heart of the village of Manlius. And now they’ve somehow found a developer stupid enough to build according to the village’s stupid plans. Who do they think they are? Another Skaneateles? You know which one I mean, the town so stupid it figured out how to get people to drive for 40 minutes just to take a walk in it.
I had a feeling she would oppose this. Although I agreed with some components of her initial argument against Walgreens and the sign controversy, it seems that Lonnie is against every project that doesn't 100% gel with her pen and pencil schematic. That current stretch of Manlius with its vacant buildings looks much like Eastwood. Perhaps that's why Ms. Chu wants to keep it that way. Her comment about Skaneateles and Fayetteville is juvenile and is likely based on jealousy that those communities have the demographics to attract niche retailers that would never locate on Eastwood's James Street.
Lonnie and I are friends and - in light of the fact that this tends to be a very civil forum where people can respectfully disagree - I'll contact her and she if she's interested in joining this discussion.
I interpreted her comments on syracuse.com as clearly indicating her opposition to this project due to this specific statement
Quote:
.... now they’ve somehow found a developer stupid enough to build according to the village’s stupid plans. Who do they think they are? Another Skaneateles? You know which one I mean, the town so stupid it figured out how to get people to drive for 40 minutes just to take a walk in it.
If she was being sarcastic - which does not appear to be the case - then I'll gladly stand corrected.
Again... I am interpreting the words of another and may not be reading clearly but she also appears to be opposed to the construction of a new road that would be pedestrian only in the summer and allow vehicular traffic during the months with marginal weather.
My take on the seasonal vehicular/pedestrian road is that it addresses one of the challenges we've had for years. How do we balance the reality of a challenging climate for much of the year where people will go where they can get to by car - whether we all agree with it or not - yet balance that with a pedestrian friendly alternative during the months when people can comfortably walk and will be more easily encouraged to do so?
Quote:
Quote:
“A key, said Dougherty, was to create a project that would encourage foot traffic through it and into the rest of the village. “It is nearly the inverse of how a typical developer would approach this prime site,” said Dougherty.”
and
“Parking would be in the rear and would accommodate more than 350 cars. A new road, called Village Road, would line up with Manlius Mart. It would be closed off to vehicular traffic in the summer for pedestrian flow and to allow the restaurants to open up for outdoor, patio seating.”
So what if traffic doesn’t flow rapidly through Manlius? It doesn’t do that in any town worth living in. That’s because people find it so rewarding to live there, they put up with the inconvenience of having to take just one aspect of their lives a little more slowly (examples: Newport, Boston, all of Europe). If traffic discourages one more developer from turning one more of Pompey’s farmer fields into a mass of McMansions, all the better for Manlius.
Although the definition of McMansion varies widely I'll contend that a number of areas on the edge of Manlius, Pompey, Fayetteville and Jamesville have already succumbed to that development trend.
Because I saw comments about "where on earth are they going to put parking?! Idiots", I'd like to attest to the fact that the area *behind* the current row of buildings is enormous. It's a vast, concrete park where small trees and other greenery have sprung from the cracks. There's EASILY space for 350 cars... and nothing needs to be torn down to do it. It's a large field of cracked concrete and small mounds of gravel. People like to let their dogs run around back there. I'd much prefer that eyesore be gone and given over to some kind of USE.
I like the idea of doing something with the abandoned buildings cluttering up Manlius, and from the plans show in the Post Standard today it looks like the powers that be are moving in a welcome direction. Parking in the rear of the stores allows the illusion of an old established business district, while allowing parking for non residents. As far as the post by Lonniechu, I took the remarks about this development as sarcasm, but I do not know this person and could be wrong.
Lonnie and I are friends and - in light of the fact that this tends to be a very civil forum where people can respectfully disagree - I'll contact her and she if she's interested in joining this discussion.
I interpreted her comments on syracuse.com as clearly indicating her opposition to this project due to this specific statement
If she was being sarcastic - which does not appear to be the case - then I'll gladly stand corrected.
Again... I am interpreting the words of another and may not be reading clearly but she also appears to be opposed to the construction of a new road that would be pedestrian only in the summer and allow vehicular traffic during the months with marginal weather.
In the context of the rest of her comment (and the title of the blog posting from which it was copied, "They didn’t pave paradise", I read it as sarcasm aimed at the many comments about parking, aggravating traffic, and things - basically saying in mock horror how dare they have standards and plans and actually stick to them.
Elaborating, here's the closing three paragraphs of the blog entry:
Quote:
So what if traffic doesn’t flow rapidly through Manlius? It doesn’t do that in any town worth living in. That’s because people find it so rewarding to live there, they put up with the inconvenience of having to take just one aspect of their lives a little more slowly (examples: Newport, Boston, all of Europe). If traffic discourages one more developer from turning one more of Pompey’s farmer fields into a mass of McMansions, all the better for Manlius.
Let’s see, then. Eastwood has had its own visionary overlay district guidelines for eight years. It has had development on James Street during that time, and most of it pretty good. It has suffered from a planning commission still subject to pressure from a mayor who has publicly come out against the guidelines. It is mired in a system that that allows developers to toy with (read: divide and try to conquer) the property-tax-paying residents. It is facing the same problems Manlius faces. But oh, what a difference when you have plans in place that will be enforced. Look at the kind of developer you get: one who will do the inverse of what has brought Eastwood to the brink, Butternut to the pit and Salina-Ballantyne over the edge.
Makes it kinda tempting to consider moving back home.
The bold emphasis is not present in the Syracuse.com version, which may be where some of the confusion is coming in.
Last edited by acknight; 07-01-2009 at 08:46 PM..
Reason: Elaboration, added quote.
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