Nine-Day period= 21 people killed (Tampa, Tallahassee: hotel, gated, dangerous)

[Occifer]

I'm pretty much as anti gun-control as it gets, but it's a ridiculous argument to compare cars to guns when it comes to deaths.

Traffic fatalities are accidental. Accidental means that it's not intentional. Even someone who gets behind the wheel of a car while drunk and kills someone isn't charged with murder. They're charged with DUI manslaughter because the death was not intentional even though it occurred through gross negligence.

On the other hand, gun deaths (excluding true accidents) are intentional. If you shoot and kill someone it's a homicide. It could be a criminal homicide or a justifiable homicide, but it's still an intentional act where one person intentionally engages in an action to cause the death of another.

Intentional killings always strike deeper at everyone's moral fiber just because of the fact that they are violent acts that someone chooses to do. It's not an accident. Even accidental acts of violence are treated in a totally different manner. We didn't go to war with the Soviet Union when they blew a Korean airliner out of the sky in the 1980s, but when terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center we sent thousands of troops to Afghanistan. Comparing accidents to intentional acts just isn't acceptable. Not only do people not view them the same, but the courts don't view them the same either.

And lets not also forget the obvious. Cars were designed from the beginning as a mode of transportation. Firearms were designed from the beginning as weapons--weapons of war to be exact.

[Sunshinecc]

Well stated.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the driver in CA, I *think* is being charged with 6 counts of murder instead of manslaughter. I don't know enough about the laws, albeit California, to know whether or not this is a first. And I wonder what allows it to be changed from manslaughter to murder (not arguing for or against, just curious)

[tinytrump]

vehicular homicide hello?
anyhow I moved Orlando Sat live in Clermont n drive to no of orl airport not bad at all its longer with distance, but ride has been stress free- really- I am amazed -I know be some days be issues but, I like the ride

[mrviking]

Originally Posted by Occifer

I'm pretty much as anti gun-control as it gets, but it's a ridiculous argument to compare cars to guns when it comes to deaths.

Traffic fatalities are accidental. Accidental means that it's not intentional. Even someone who gets behind the wheel of a car while drunk and kills someone isn't charged with murder. They're charged with DUI manslaughter because the death was not intentional even though it occurred through gross negligence.

On the other hand, gun deaths (excluding true accidents) are intentional. If you shoot and kill someone it's a homicide. It could be a criminal homicide or a justifiable homicide, but it's still an intentional act where one person intentionally engages in an action to cause the death of another.

Intentional killings always strike deeper at everyone's moral fiber just because of the fact that they are violent acts that someone chooses to do. It's not an accident. Even accidental acts of violence are treated in a totally different manner. We didn't go to war with the Soviet Union when they blew a Korean airliner out of the sky in the 1980s, but when terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center we sent thousands of troops to Afghanistan. Comparing accidents to intentional acts just isn't acceptable. Not only do people not view them the same, but the courts don't view them the same either.

And lets not also forget the obvious. Cars were designed from the beginning as a mode of transportation. Firearms were designed from the beginning as weapons--weapons of war to be exact.

We have accidental drug deaths, so we ban certain drugs. Perhaps we should value all deaths and not be so outraged over just some.

[DUNNDFRNT]

Originally Posted by mrviking

We have accidental drug deaths, so we ban certain drugs. Perhaps we should value all deaths and not be so outraged over just some.

The things you are misguidedly talking about (drugs, cars) are already controlled, I can't legally sell you drugs on a drug show, I have to register my car, I need license, and so on.....In your head when someone says we have a gun problem you think they are trying to ban guns so if you are looking fro someone who has artificially manufactured outrage you should look within.

[Occifer]

Originally Posted by tinytrump

vehicular homicide hello?

Vehicular homicide is not murder. Vehicular homicide is a second degree felony (the same as DUI manslaughter) and requires intentional grossly negligent operation of a motor vehicle that rises to the level of reckless driving. It does NOT require that the offender intended to cause the death of a victim.

Murder, on the other hand, is either a life or capital felony. It requires actual intent to cause death to the victim. The reason that the penalty for murder is so much greater than that of either vehicular homicide or DUI manslaughter very simply is the requirement for the specific intent to cause the death of someone else.

You can intentionally strike someone with a vehicle, kill them, and be charged with murder. If you speed through a red light and kill someone, you'll just be charged with vehicular homicide. The maximum sentence is 15 years.

[Occifer]

Originally Posted by mrviking

We have accidental drug deaths, so we ban certain drugs. Perhaps we should value all deaths and not be so outraged over just some.

Comparing drug deaths to gun deaths is just as stupid as comparing traffic fatalities to murders.

Do you really think that society should "value" the death of a junkie who CHOSE to engage in what is obviously a dangerous habit by abusing drugs the same way as the death of a child who is murdered in their kindergarten classroom? The obvious answer that resounds with common sense is no. Regardless of whether or not that child is murdered by a gun, knife, baseball bat, or bomb, the victim is truly innocent. There's not much innocence involved with a drug abuser. Nobody forced that syringe of heroin into their veins. The same can be said of the many people who die each year as a result of either alcohol abuse or their desire to smoke. Nobody forced them to do it, it's a path that they willingly went down. They aren't innocent victims.

Again, I'm not in favor of gun control. The Constitution gives every American the right to keep and bear arms, and that right should not be unduly infringed. Firearms are still weapons. Sure they can be used for sporting or hunting, but they were originally designed to kill people. The reason that the framers of the Constitution wrote the second amendment isn't because they valued people's rights to hunt, skeet shoot, or keep from getting robbed; the second amendment was written because if the populace is armed it would be difficult for a tyrannical government to oppress them.

The bottom line is that as long as there are guns out there (and there always will be), there are going to be people victimized by those using guns. Trying to skew statistics or compare unlike things isn't going to change that. It's just something that has to be accepted. While guns don't cause crime and the reasons people engage in violent crime go much deeper, the sheer availability of guns doesn't help matters.

[Sunshinecc]

Originally Posted by Occifer

Vehicular homicide is not murder. Vehicular homicide is a second degree felony (the same as DUI manslaughter) and requires intentional grossly negligent operation of a motor vehicle that rises to the level of reckless driving. It does NOT require that the offender intended to cause the death of a victim.

Murder, on the other hand, is either a life or capital felony. It requires actual intent to cause death to the victim. The reason that the penalty for murder is so much greater than that of either vehicular homicide or DUI manslaughter very simply is the requirement for the specific intent to cause the death of someone else.

You can intentionally strike someone with a vehicle, kill them, and be charged with murder. If you speed through a red light and kill someone, you'll just be charged with vehicular homicide. The maximum sentence is 15 years.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. That is what I was curious about after seeing that the driver in CA was being charged with murder (instead of manslaughter) or, at least that is how I read it.

[mrviking]

Originally Posted by DUNNDFRNT

The things you are misguidedly talking about (drugs, cars) are already controlled, I can't legally sell you drugs on a drug show, I have to register my car, I need license, and so on.....In your head when someone says we have a gun problem you think they are trying to ban guns so if you are looking fro someone who has artificially manufactured outrage you should look within.

so guns aren't controlled? My outrage is the way people react over some deaths and not others.

[tinytrump]

I dont know how all the states rule death by auto, but its true very few are intentionL as u could die or get maimed too/! As for the quest, somebody asked/ seem im in less harm in orl than tampa!