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WEll, that certainly proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're right and I'm wrong.
In re: the second "example", have you ever read any of the bullying threads on this board? Lots of parents encourage that behavior.
In the first ex, it's possible the father was tired, having a bad day, etc, and spoke to his son afterwards. Why didn't your daughter call the guy herself? Lending stuff out is not a good idea; my kids have learned these things the hard way.
( regarding your first sentence )................It was you who used a quote--"all parents"
I'm not that naive to make a blanket statement using the word---all
But, go ahead and continue using "all" in your attempt to prove a point.
( regarding your first sentence )................It was you who used a quote--"all parents"
I'm not that naive to make a blanket statement using the word---all
But, go ahead and continue using "all" in your attempt to prove a point.
Except for parents who are mentally ill, virtually all parents love their children. We are all hard-wired to do so. The species would not have survived otherwise.
You are being very judgemental about the kid who dropped out of high school. It is possible his family did not value education. That is too bad, for the kid. It does not prove that the father did not love his son.
----You just have to remember that all parents love their kids ;they just don't always see things our way------
Here is 2 personal examples of classmates of my daughters( their parents)
My daughter ( while in jr high) loaned a book to a boy and needed it back ( he hadn't been in school for a few days)
She called his home and his father answered and said his jr high son wasn't there. When my daughter inquired if he would be in school Monday , he replied-------" I don't know and I don't give a damn "
( the boy dropped out of school his sophmore year)
Another neighbor of mine always bragged about his son.
Always bragging about how many kids at school his son smashed in the face and " knocked them on their ass"
( that boy got his name constantly in the local paper's court reports from age 18-40. Lot of assault charges)
This wasn't in the ghettos but in rural America.
Yup, I guess they just loved their kids and saw things differently than me.--sarc
I could buy that the 2nd guy loved his kid. Whether he was a fit parent and/or a decent human being is another story (beyond whether or not "I" agree with him too), but a lot of crappy people love their kids. I think you could say that is unfit parenting -- encouraging violence -- and bad human behavior, and it isn't needlessly judgmental or "a matter of opinion." Encouraging violence shouldn't be tolerated by society, particularly in children.
As far as the first guy goes, it sounds like this was a systemic issue not a one time thing (from your parenthetical addition), and that could be not loving your kid.
Guess what? Some parents don't love their kids. When you've seen a mother throw a mirror at a 9 year old boy's head because he woke her up. . . you might doubt that there is "love" in all families. Heck, I can tell any number of other stories of neglect I've seen, even just emotional neglect. I've known kids who weren't allowed to TALK to their parents because they would disturb them. They certainly weren't being made meals or sent to school with what they needed. Other parents might "love" their kids but be blatantly negligent in expressing it, i.e. the "I don't give a damn" dad maybe, but some just plain flat-out don't love their kids. It happens. Those parents probably don't take them to the pediatrician, though, so your boss has a good point there. But all kids go to school.
That said, most of the time, it's not an extreme case. MOST times, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Many parents either can't help their kids, don't know how, or just don't agree with the system. You can't get a note from the parents saying, "I don't care about my kid's test scores" though.
Last edited by halfwaygone; 06-19-2010 at 09:48 AM..
I think all parents love their kids. Most of us parents don't always like our kids, but that's a different issue. That's where abuse comes in. Plus, there is substance abuse (on the part of the parent), etc.
But, we're getting off-track. Should teachers get paid based on the performance of their students? I guess I'd say "it depends" on how you're judging "performance".
Of course I cared about my kids doing well in school. I'm just tired of statements like "it's all the fault of the parents", etc, etc, that one sees every day on this forum. It seems to be an occupational hazard of teachers, even those that have kids. I work in a pediatric office. Our boss would not tolerate us talking about parents like that. Every now and then he says, "You just have to remember that all parents love their kids; they just don't always see things our way." It's a good reality check. Would anyone want to take their kid to a doctor's office where the staff felt the parents were all inept, uncaring, etc?
Keep in mind that your office primarily sees children whose parents take them to see a specialist. Most of my students go to the ER for whatever medical care they receive. Many of them have never seen a dentist, and the students who need glasses often don't get them. If care is not covered by Medicaid, then they don't get it.
Most of my students have parents who love them, but definitely not all. Most children's parents want the best for them, but some of them actively seek to undermine their children's efforts to succeed. One of my top students discovered that her mother was throwing away her scholarship offers while she was at school. For some families, a child growing up and going to college means losing them, and they will try to prevent that.
Your boss is right about his clientele. His experience with the families that I am describing depends on where he did his training. Probably the parents who abuse their children don't take them to your clinic when they have burned them or broken their bones.
One of the most difficult situations for a teacher is having to make a call to Child Protective Services. If all parents loved and cared for their children, that office would not exist.
Keep in mind that your office primarily sees children whose parents take them to see a specialist. Most of my students go to the ER for whatever medical care they receive. Many of them have never seen a dentist, and the students who need glasses often don't get them. If care is not covered by Medicaid, then they don't get it.
Actually, we are a general pediatric practice and we have some patients on Medicaid. My boss did his residency in LA, at LA County Hospital.
Most of my students have parents who love them, but definitely not all. Most children's parents want the best for them, but some of them actively seek to undermine their children's efforts to succeed. One of my top students discovered that her mother was throwing away her scholarship offers while she was at school. For some families, a child growing up and going to college means losing them, and they will try to prevent that.
Well, yes, I have known parents who didn't want their kids to go to college, either. That doesn't mean they don't love their kids. As you said, they think they will lose their child if s/he goes to college. Some parental education would be helpful there. It is wrong to blame this on lack of love for the child.
Your boss is right about his clientele. His experience with the families that I am describing depends on where he did his training. Probably the parents who abuse their children don't take them to your clinic when they have burned them or broken their bones.
Wrong again! There's a case going on right now that I can't give any details about, esp. on CD.
One of the most difficult situations for a teacher is having to make a call to Child Protective Services. If all parents loved and cared for their children, that office would not exist.
We've been involved with Social Services (as it is called here in CO) many times. Abuse is not a lack of love; it involves unrealistic expectations, substance abuse on the part of the parents, and other issues. I've gone to many child abuse seminars in my career; those are the dominant themes. Abuse/neglect knows no income boundaries, either.
Yes, let's make the creation of a permanent underclass official. Your idea would lead to pay offs and corruption-no wealthy and connected parent would ever stand for their underachieving, troubled child to be shuttled into a life of remedial classes. Ivy League colleges are full of dopes who got in strictly because their parents were politically connected.
That has happened anyway as affluent parents have moved to districts with other affluent parents or sent their kids to private school. Why do you think urban and some other school districts are so low performing? Parents who can have abandoned those who can't. Hmmmm and now there is no one in many of those areas to tax and pay for the failing schools.
I didn't know that general pediatric clinics took Medicaid patients. In my area, most clinics have big signs in the reception area stating that Medicaid patients are excluded. In my discussions with my students, they generally indicate that they go to the ER for treatment for everything.
I am not among those who try to blame everything wrong on the parents. Or even on any one factor. The problems in education in the US originate at a number of levels. In my opinion, most of those problems will not be solved because, I believe, that it is not in the best interests of the capitalist powerbrokers to solve them.
Most socialist countries are set up to support a fairly large number of unemployed people while trying to spread the work around. In the US, it seems to be similar, in that even when times are good, there is a fairly immovable group of people who remain on public aid.
Basing school funding of locally results in an inherently unequal education. I don't know what the solution would entail, but I do know that having chosen to spend the greatest part of my career in the inner city teaching poor children has given me the perspective that paying teachers based on their students' achievement would not be an equitable process.
The district where I teach pays significantly more than the neighboring suburbs where student achievement is much higher. Their teachers are willing to earn less and work more in order to have a more supportive community of students and parents. My district has chronic unfilled positions because, even with the extra money, there are not enough people willing to deal with the problems that come with the territory.
I think that the OP makes some very pertinent points that many people choose to ignore. One situation that keeps coming back to me is a conversation with our TMR teacher who is having to deal with the parents of girls who will not take care of their menstrual needs. The girls keep coming back to school in the same soiled clothes without fresh hygienic supplies. They do not understand THAT they are bleeding, much less why. The teacher was expressing her frustration that these students MUST be tested on the same Algebra, English, Science, and History tests as the regular students. Some of them can't even talk.
How is this useful to the student, to the school, and to society? How do her students' results reflect on her success as a teacher? And is it not the parents' responsibility to make sure that their children's menstrual needs are dealt with at home, especially over the week-end?
I agree with Minethatbird that such parents do not deserve custody, but the citizens are growing more and more disinclined to have the state step in when parents are irresponsible.
Maybe sex education should spend less time having girls learn how to put condoms on cucumbers and educate them a little about normal sexual body functions !
I didn't know that general pediatric clinics took Medicaid patients. In my area, most clinics have big signs in the reception area stating that Medicaid patients are excluded. In my discussions with my students, they generally indicate that they go to the ER for treatment for everything.
ERs do not give immunizations, do well-child checks, etc. They go somewhere else for that, possibly public clinics or community health centers. Some physicians do take medicaid, especially in areas where there are not a lot of public services.
Quote:
I am not among those who try to blame everything wrong on the parents. Or even on any one factor. The problems in education in the US originate at a number of levels. In my opinion, most of those problems will not be solved because, I believe, that it is not in the best interests of the capitalist powerbrokers to solve them.
Most socialist countries are set up to support a fairly large number of unemployed people while trying to spread the work around. In the US, it seems to be similar, in that even when times are good, there is a fairly immovable group of people who remain on public aid.
Basing school funding of locally results in an inherently unequal education. I don't know what the solution would entail, but I do know that having chosen to spend the greatest part of my career in the inner city teaching poor children has given me the perspective that paying teachers based on their students' achievement would not be an equitable process.
The district where I teach pays significantly more than the neighboring suburbs where student achievement is much higher. Their teachers are willing to earn less and work more in order to have a more supportive community of students and parents. My district has chronic unfilled positions because, even with the extra money, there are not enough people willing to deal with the problems that come with the territory.
I think that the OP makes some very pertinent points that many people choose to ignore. One situation that keeps coming back to me is a conversation with our TMR teacher who is having to deal with the parents of girls who will not take care of their menstrual needs. The girls keep coming back to school in the same soiled clothes without fresh hygienic supplies. They do not understand THAT they are bleeding, much less why. The teacher was expressing her frustration that these students MUST be tested on the same Algebra, English, Science, and History tests as the regular students. Some of them can't even talk.
How is this useful to the student, to the school, and to society? How do her students' results reflect on her success as a teacher? And is it not the parents' responsibility to make sure that their children's menstrual needs are dealt with at home, especially over the week-end?
I agree with Minethatbird that such parents do not deserve custody, but the citizens are growing more and more disinclined to have the state step in when parents are irresponsible.
There is a lot about NCLB that should be changed, including to the approach to special ed.
However, I do maintain that there are ways to evaluate teachers.
I do not agree with taking custody away from "such parents". I think such a decision should not be made lightly. There are other penalties for not sending one's child to school, not taking care of health and hygiene needs and so on.
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