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I can't believe some posters are stating how other professions are better than some others (nurses better than teachers).
Yes, nurses help to save lives. We help to build them. Oh yeah, we helped to create those nurses.
I am going to paste the ending of my philosophy of education, that I had to create for my resume. I hope it goes to show the importance. (oh, also, for the GPA, it depends on the college. I know for the department of education at my college I had to have a minim. of 3.0.)
My ending:
There are many aspects involved with educating a child. There are many responsibilities to be taken upon. This field is not the right field for everyone. The role of education is the foundation, and the children are the blueprints of the buildings to be built on the foundation. In order for the buildings to be built straight, and stable, glorious for all to see, a vision of pride, there must be an architect. This architect must weight the pros and cons of building these buildings, and take the right course, the only course, in building them. I am such an architect.
Last edited by Mrs.Bewitched; 06-27-2007 at 02:52 PM..
Reason: wrong word
No one should HAVE to have 2 incomes to afford an average house no matter what job you do.
That's great in theory, however it is very idealistic which is the way many educators think. The stone cold reality is that in today's world the average hard working college educated person cannot buy a home (or it is a stretch) on one income in any metro anywhere in the US (unless they somehow have a large down payment). So, why should the teachers be any different????
Our firefighters, police, nurses and teachers are all well compensated. Which I think makes for a great state with a great standard of living. I just get a little perturbed when I constantly hear that teachers are underpaid. And no it's not the same as my private enterprise owner paying me. If I get a big raise (that's a BIG if ) do everyone's taxes go up?
I work with a lot of 1st time homebuyers and have yet to see one buy a $300k house. Therefore I would not call $300k a starter. The 77 listings under $225k are what I would call the starter homes.
My county is constantly losing teachers (facts that have been published) because they can't afford to live here. At least the teachers that have families. Down here, the average home IS $300K. It's pathetic. Yes, I have looked outside the county, but close enough where I could still keep my job. There are houses in the $200 range...but either they are fixer-upppers which with that price I couldn't afford to fix it up, or in bad neighborhoods. If I could manage to do that $200 something house......the taxes and high price of the insurance down here......forget it. That house would be about $2K a month. I know, because last year we were looking at houses to buy with a realtor, and that was about what it would cost a month. We would be house poor.
I wish they would consider the cost of living. I understand that a teacher in......say TN, which has a cheaper cost of living, might not need to make the amount of say a teacher where I am at, or in San Fran.....perhaps they can actually make it relative.
And I disagree. I don't think cops or firefighters are paid enough either.
My county is constantly losing teachers (facts that have been published) because they can't afford to live here. At least the teachers that have families. Down here, the average home IS $300K. It's pathetic. Yes, I have looked outside the county, but close enough where I could still keep my job. There are houses in the $200 range...but either they are fixer-upppers which with that price I couldn't afford to fix it up, or in bad neighborhoods. If I could manage to do that $200 something house......the taxes and high price of the insurance down here......forget it. That house would be about $2K a month. I know, because last year we were looking at houses to buy with a realtor, and that was about what it would cost a month. We would be house poor.
I wish they would consider the cost of living. I understand that a teacher in......say TN, which has a cheaper cost of living, might not need to make the amount of say a teacher where I am at, or in San Fran.....perhaps they can actually make it relative.
And I disagree. I don't think cops or firefighters are paid enough either.
I have to have the MAs to actually DO the work. It was a requirement for the job.
Next you will say she does as much as any physician anyway, so she should get paid like one.
It doesn't work like that. The amount of work you do does not necessarily equal more pay. There ARE requirements for the job and quite frankly, I think that higher educations should make more money. I DID study and work more than she did, so I should get paid more, using your line of arguement.
Your opinion on who should get paid more is simply that, your opinion.
Sorry, I don't usually get so peeved at posts, but this is just a silly arguement.
Dawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimtheGuy
Pretty much all our houses are vinyl sided. Some with more character than others. I just used that one as it was right at $300k. My point was it is way more house than the average person would require (6 Bed, 3 full bath, 3 car garage, 2000 built home on .80 acres. Over 3000 SF finished).
Yes, I am saying the ICU-RN should make more than a teacher because of the work performed. She could have 2 Master's degrees too, but it would not change the work performed.
Plenty of people have a $300k+ house on $90k in income and are not house poor as it is usually not their 1st home. They come with equity out of the old and put it down on the new. Not too many people buy their 2nd, 3rd, 4th home with zero down.
Bottom line is our teachers are paid well & can afford housing.
I don't really think it is fair to say that a veteran teacher should have to buy a starter home. I am not a starter worker, so I should be able to afford a decent home.
Dawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimtheGuy
That's great in theory, however it is very idealistic which is the way many educators think. The stone cold reality is that in today's world the average hard working college educated person cannot buy a home (or it is a stretch) on one income in any metro anywhere in the US (unless they somehow have a large down payment). So, why should the teachers be any different????
Our firefighters, police, nurses and teachers are all well compensated. Which I think makes for a great state with a great standard of living. I just get a little perturbed when I constantly hear that teachers are underpaid. And no it's not the same as my private enterprise owner paying me. If I get a big raise (that's a BIG if ) do everyone's taxes go up?
I work with a lot of 1st time homebuyers and have yet to see one buy a $300k house. Therefore I would not call $300k a starter. The 77 listings under $225k are what I would call the starter homes.
Yes, I am saying the ICU-RN should make more than a teacher because of the work performed. Bottom line is our teachers are paid well & can afford housing.
My husband and I both teach. Anyone who works anywhere has to make decisions about how and where they want to live. We can afford a house. It isn't big and grand, but it suits our needs and we live in a nice/safe part of town. We live in a relatively small town, so I can imagine that in a larger or more expensive area, we would not be able to afford the same house; but that is a decision we would have to make. Thus, I will agree that teachers can afford "suitable" housing.
However, I would suggest thinking twice before saying that an ICU-RN should make more than a teacher "because of the work performed". Have you ever taught in a middle school classroom? elementary maybe? or perhaps high school? I don't claim to be able to do everything or anything that an ICU-RN can do, but I would also say that an ICU-RN cannot do everything that I can do. My job is not easy. It requires that I not only be educated on the subject that I teach, but I must also be an expert on people, knowing how to teach each of my 100 students, all with different learning styles, backgrounds and personalities, how to talk to them, engage them in learning, and inspire them to continue learning long after they leave my classroom. Teaching is also time-consuming. Out of the week, I get less than 3 hours of in-school time for lesson planning, grading, parent conferences, etc. So, I more than make up for the time I get off during the summer (assuming I'm not teaching summer school). Where do you think our doctors, nurses, scientists, lawyers, engineers, etc. come from? Some teacher inspired them, taught them, and encouraged them to follow their dreams. I'm not saying that teachers should suddenly have salaries equal to that of Bill Gates. I'm not complaining about how much I get paid. I am simply saying that you shouldn't put down a job without taking a closer look at it or trying it yourself. Teachers deserve the same respect as doctors, nurses, scientists, etc.; especially good teachers! Honestly, I don't need a huge raise; I'd just be happy if they would give me more money for classroom needs. School hasn't started yet, and I've already spent $100 of my own money.
Saying that teachers help create nurses is a little odd. Nurses help bring people into the world, and help keep them well so they can teach, or do whatever. It takes a village.
...which was, Are teachers really underpaid or overpaid accordingly?
*shrugs* What does "getting paid enough" mean? Making a living salary? Being able to pay bills, feed your family, have a living wage turned into retirement? Two weeks vacation every year? Paid holidays? Any days off? Having lots of spending $$$$? The biggest house on the block? Diamonds and furs and luxury cars? With the exception of maybe professional entertainers who make millions of dollars from sports/acting/singing- I would say most of us would say we don't make enough. Period.
I was a trifle bit surprised at the animosity that some posters had toward the teaching profession. Mrs. Crabapple must have made you sit in the corner in first grade, and you never got over it. Clearly, you see what you want, and, I'm sure I could do your job with one arm tied behind my back. I have heard this "summers off-easy job-great pay-little stress- couldn't do anything else in college- my taxes pay your salary- no holidays, weekend, summer work- snow days- for years. Can't get too riled up about it. There are some lazy, bad teachers in the lot, but I've also know horrible nurses, dentists, police officers, waitresses, plumbers, priests, accountants- on and on. Show me perfection in the workforce.....I've got this bridge for you to buy......
Plus, many of the things I hear people upset about are out of our hands.
Snow days (OMG! YOU cancel school when there is a rumor of a snowflake!! What do I do with my kids???? Teachers DON'T work!!!) Um, call the superintendent. Not my call.
Spring Break! Christmas (oops, sorry, holiday break) vacation! Federal holidays! SUMMERS OFF! Teachers DON'T work!!!! Um, last time I checked, the school boards and state agencies made those decisions- not me. I've worked "real jobs" LOL, and packing up/taking down/putting up a classroom was a WHOLE lot more hassle than "working all summer".
Summers off/great working conditions/low stress/easy job- uh-uh. Those are so ridiculous, to those of us who do teach....well, you'll never know. Simply silly and subjective. Your job is cake, too.
This was the easy major in college? LOL That's more ignorance. Were you dumped by a future teacher?
When I signed on to teach, they looked at my years of experience, and put me on a certain "rung" on the pay scale. They did not seek all my former success stories, see all the miracles I worked as a teacher, all that good stuff. They said, This is what you will make. Next year, if the budget allows, you will make $300 more (before taxes) on the next step. Just as they did not seek out another teacher's failures and low test scores and docked pay, I was told, this is your salary, according to our scale. Right or wrong, that is what happened. When I worked in the business/private sector, they said, These are things you can do to make a BONUS! (What is that??) These are ways you can really rise up the ladder and make some bucks. Huh.
My point- you don't do what we do. We don't do what you do. I have a sister who is a nurse who constantly complains about the teaching profession ("soooooo easy"), yet she fell apart trying to teach a CCD (Sunday school) class- she only lasted one semester. Hey, it's not for everyone. I don't think we are saints- as one said. The reasons people go into this profession are different than maybe others. Maybe not. Are we compensated enough? I think much of what we get out of this profession, you could never put into a $$$ amount. Do we complain? Yep. So does everyone else. Money never motivated me to get out of bed in the morning and give 100% of myself all day- but it is nice to able to pay my mortage. And eat occasionally.
Anyway, I feel sad that this profession has been so dumped on, mostly due to lack of knowledge about it. Having worked other jobs, I know you do not, cannot, have a true appreciation of what others' do until you do it. I always thought it would be paradise to sit in a cubicle all day, surfing the net, having hour-long lunches, and three twenty-minute coffee breaks every day (and weekends OFF!). Until I found it mind-numbing, pointless, and missed the chaos that is teaching young children. When they write my obituary, I want it to say I helped children on their journey in life to who they became- not that I made a millions $$$.
Good thing I'm a teacher.
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) do everyone's taxes go up?
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