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Feeling hyperbolic? Everybody? Really?
My millenial nephews, out of college within the past 3 years make more than a LI teacher at the max. Siblings, other family members (even the engineer, gasp) make more than teachers at the top of the pay scale.
Are your millennial nephews, siblings, other family members (including the engineer) working on Long Island? If not, then comparing Long Island teacher salaries to corporate salaries somewhere other than Long Island is comparing apples to oranges.
Quote:
High cost of living area with higher salaries. Teachers in Alaska, and Hawaii make even more because of the high COL and CA teachers have a similar pay scale with similar benefits and a similar annual calendar.
Teachers in high cost of living areas make more than the cost of living, since they have unions that ensure that they get paid a lot. Unfortunately, for those of us in the corporate world, we have no unions. Employers, whether rightfully or wrongfully, are forced to make a profit if they want to stay in business. Unfortunately, there are many corporate employees on Long Island and New York City that are willing to work long hours for low salaries. That allows employers to pay low salaries and expect long hours of everyone. That is really the difference between teaching vs corporate. Teachers have unions to protect their salary, benefits, and work-life balance, whereas corporate will just hire whoever is willing to work the longest hours for the least amount of money. In Long Island and New York City, that is usually people who are married to a teacher or cop, or who are willing to commute from Eastern Suffolk to the city, or who live multiple generations in a 1 bedroom apartment.
The day after thanksgiving is not a holiday, the week days between Christmas and new years day are not holidays. You typically get one day off for Christmas, One for new Years. That is it for December. Sometimes you might get two for each if the actual holiday falls midweek. There is no spring or winter break, and of course not summer break. There is no change from year to year. No re-start. It just keeps going. Your job does not change. It progresses in small increments, but no real change. Same people, same tasks. That can be trying for some people, especially early on.
Later you will get more vacation days. Some places up to 25, but you can never take that many. I get three weeks. I have not been able to use it all up. We can carry one week over to the next year, so I always have four weeks available. I can never even use up three weeks. I used to get six weeks, and for a time, there was no set vacation for me. However I never even used a full three weeks. The longest vacation I ever took was 14 consecutive days (10 vacation/holiday days, three weekends). However during that time, I did 50 hours of work.
Your planned vacations are subject to cancellation without notice if something comes up. This can include jumping n a plane and flying back the day after your family arrives in Hawaii. Usually they will make up the costs.
On the plus side, your vacation can be at any time of the year dictated only by what is going on at work at any given time. As a teacher you time off is dictated by a set schedule.
Often we take a day to "work at home" which is what many vacation days are anyway. Working in your car at a campground parking lot or sitting parked at a beach watching your wife and kids play. Not always, but fairly typical. When you take vacation it is difficult to take more than 2-3 days in a row. If you take longer vacations, you will end up having to do at least some work during that time. Your vacation has to be coordinated with other people who do the same work as you. Your entire department cannot be gone at the same time.
Pay raises some steadily for a while and then maybe 2% every other year, or possibly no raises.
Bonuses or stock is where the income is later. That will vary with how well the company is doing. You never know. Your bonus can vary from $1000 - $300,000 or even millions. It depends on your level and performance. It can also be $0.
It helps a lot if you are good at marketing'sales.
You have to sink as much money as possible into your 401K at a minimum at least hit the company match. You do not get a pension or other retirement plan, what you save is what you get. This is always a surprise for some people. You really need to tuck 10% of your salary into your 401K if you want to retire ever.
Health insurance covers you. You can pay for more coverage. For our family it is $680 a month. We have a deductible of $1500 per person then insurance pays 80% with a total out of pocket of $4600 for the family. We have a health savings account that we use to pay for the deductible and the 20% and dental and vision (we have very limited coverage for either). The company seeds the HSA with $1000 per year to offset some of the cost.
Bosses and/or co-workers look over your shoulder, second guess and deride everything you do, steal your ideas or accomplishments and take credit for them. Not all of them do that, but there are always some.
You spend countless hours in worthless meetings.
Small perks can mean a lot. We have a professional chef who makes lunch for us 2-4 days a week. It is a big deal, even though financially it is not that big a deal.
Job security is always a concern until you are at very high levels (like CEO). No such thing as tenure. The need for you is based on the economy for almost all jobs. teachers are still needed in a bad economy, business people get RIFed.
As long as you have nothing critical going on that day, you can leave in the middle of the day if you need to, stay home if you are sick, take a day off for no reason at all.
Pay can be anywhere from about $10 per hour for interns, receptionist and the like to any amount at the top end. Most paths start topping out at $150K ish. Some never get that high.
At some levels you get a car or a car allowance. Some places you get a phone or a phone allowance. We get virtually unlimited data if we do not abuse it. (If you abuse it you will be billed for the cost).
You are subject to yearly and random drug and alcohol testing. You can be fired for texting while driving if they learn about it. Not just when working, any time. Some companies charitable donations are essentially mandatory.
Some places have dress up (or down days). If you are at a higher level or want to be, you probably should not participate, or just do something subtle.
Many things are the same but in a different way. You still have political childish BS that makes you think you are back in high school. You still have incompetent people promoted to management positions. You still have lots of isms dictating who gets promoted or gets bonuses or preferred vacation times.
You typically work 10 hour days with occasional longer stints and occasional weekend work. Either one is uncommon unless you get into a sweatshop type atmosphere.
You can take a few minutes for a personal call, text, facebook, CityData or whatever. What you do is not dictated, just as long as you get done what needs to be done when it needs to be done. However they will track you use of your computer, phone, car, etc. No one looks at that information unless you become a problem, but they track it. Sometimes IT personnel will watch you through your computer just for kicks they are not allowed to, but they do (we keep pot it notes over our cameras just to be safe)
What you post on facebook etc, can get you fired. That is probably true of teaching too.
No kids greet you in a grocery store with amazement that you actually exist and do things outside of class like shopping. No parents corner you to tell you why their kid should be getting better grades.
For us, a lot of things we learn are confidential. You cannot even tell your wife. You might know where some new corporate headquarters is going months or even years before it is announced. It is hard to keep big secrets sometimes, but you do not dare mention it to anyone, not wife or husband, not kids, non Mom and dad - no one. The risk is too big.
Stress is severe but different. If you make a mistake, miss something are not on top of your game one day, it can cost tens of millions. People can die. Families can end up bankrupt. You can have a lot riding on a single action or decision.
Sometimes, even when you are not busy, you have to be in early and work late, just to be seen.
You are not the center of attention, when you are it is often not a good thing. You may get chewed out, sworn at humiliated at meetings in front of your coworkers. It may or may not be justified. You may not cry.
You do not get planning time or in-service days. It is go go go go go all day. Sometimes you cannot take time out for lunch, just grab a snack bar out of your desk.
When you leave work, everything is closed. It is too late to run errands and you are too tired. On the other hand, not many people start before 8 a.m. I pretty much come in when I want to, but if I come in late, I will leave late.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 03-05-2018 at 03:34 PM..
Teachers in high cost of living areas make more than the cost of living, since they have unions that ensure that they get paid a lot. Unfortunately, for those of us in the corporate world, we have no unions. Employers, whether rightfully or wrongfully, are forced to make a profit if they want to stay in business. Unfortunately, there are many corporate employees on Long Island and New York City that are willing to work long hours for low salaries. That allows employers to pay low salaries and expect long hours of everyone. That is really the difference between teaching vs corporate. Teachers have unions to protect their salary, benefits, and work-life balance, whereas corporate will just hire whoever is willing to work the longest hours for the least amount of money. In Long Island and New York City, that is usually people who are married to a teacher or cop, or who are willing to commute from Eastern Suffolk to the city, or who live multiple generations in a 1 bedroom apartment.
I'm in a DC suburb in Virginia, a Right To Work state. Many here would not agree with what I bolded above.
Teachers in high cost of living areas make more than the cost of living, since they have unions that ensure that they get paid a lot. Unfortunately, for those of us in the corporate world, we have no unions. Employers, whether rightfully or wrongfully, are forced to make a profit if they want to stay in business. Unfortunately, there are many corporate employees on Long Island and New York City that are willing to work long hours for low salaries. That allows employers to pay low salaries and expect long hours of everyone. That is really the difference between teaching vs corporate. Teachers have unions to protect their salary, benefits, and work-life balance, whereas corporate will just hire whoever is willing to work the longest hours for the least amount of money. In Long Island and New York City, that is usually people who are married to a teacher or cop, or who are willing to commute from Eastern Suffolk to the city, or who live multiple generations in a 1 bedroom apartment.
I'm in a DC suburb in Virginia, a Right To Work state. Many here would not agree with what I bolded above.
Count me among those who would not agree. A teacher here with two children qualifies for affordable housing vouchers (local equivalent to section 8), hardly anyone's definition of making more than the cost of living. When the average household income is $104,259 a $48,000 salary does not go far.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
The day after thanksgiving is not a holiday, the week days between Christmas and new years day are not holidays. You typically get one day off for Christmas, One for new Years. That is it for December. Sometimes you might get two for each if the actual holiday falls midweek. There is no spring or winter break, and of course not summer break. There is no change from year to year. No re-start. It just keeps going. Your job does not change. It progresses in small increments, but no real change. Same people, same tasks. That can be trying for some people, especially early on.
Later you will get more vacation days. Some places up to 25, but you can never take that many. I get three weeks. I have not been able to use it all up. We can carry one week over to the next year, so I always have four weeks available. I can never even use up three weeks. I used to get six weeks, and for a time, there was no set vacation for me. However I never even used a full three weeks. The longest vacation I ever took was 14 consecutive days (10 vacation/holiday days, three weekends). However during that time, I did 50 hours of work.
Your planned vacations are subject to cancellation without notice if something comes up. This can include jumping n a plane and flying back the day after your family arrives in Hawaii. Usually they will make up the costs.
On the plus side, your vacation can be at any time of the year dictated only by what is going on at work at any given time. As a teacher you time off is dictated by a set schedule.
Often we take a day to "work at home" which is what many vacation days are anyway. Working in your car at a campground parking lot or sitting parked at a beach watching your wife and kids play. Not always, but fairly typical. When you take vacation it is difficult to take more than 2-3 days in a row. If you take longer vacations, you will end up having to do at least some work during that time. Your vacation has to be coordinated with other people who do the same work as you. Your entire department cannot be gone at the same time.
Pay raises some steadily for a while and then maybe 2% every other year, or possibly no raises.
Bonuses or stock is where the income is later. That will vary with how well the company is doing. You never know. Your bonus can vary from $1000 - $300,000 or even millions. It depends on your level and performance. It can also be $0.
It helps a lot if you are good at marketing'sales.
You have to sink as much money as possible into your 401K at a minimum at least hit the company match. You do not get a pension or other retirement plan, what you save is what you get. This is always a surprise for some people. You really need to tuck 10% of your salary into your 401K if you want to retire ever.
Health insurance covers you. You can pay for more coverage. For our family it is $680 a month. We have a deductible of $1500 per person then insurance pays 80% with a total out of pocket of $4600 for the family. We have a health savings account that we use to pay for the deductible and the 20% and dental and vision (we have very limited coverage for either). The company seeds the HSA with $1000 per year to offset some of the cost.
Bosses and/or co-workers look over your shoulder, second guess and deride everything you do, steal your ideas or accomplishments and take credit for them. Not all of them do that, but there are always some.
You spend countless hours in worthless meetings.
Small perks can mean a lot. We have a professional chef who makes lunch for us 2-4 days a week. It is a big deal, even though financially it is not that big a deal.
Job security is always a concern until you are at very high levels (like CEO). No such thing as tenure. The need for you is based on the economy for almost all jobs. teachers are still needed in a bad economy, business people get RIFed.
As long as you have nothing critical going on that day, you can leave in the middle of the day if you need to, stay home if you are sick, take a day off for no reason at all.
Pay can be anywhere from about $10 per hour for interns, receptionist and the like to any amount at the top end. Most paths start topping out at $150K ish. Some never get that high.
At some levels you get a car or a car allowance. Some places you get a phone or a phone allowance. We get virtually unlimited data if we do not abuse it. (If you abuse it you will be billed for the cost).
You are subject to yearly and random drug and alcohol testing. You can be fired for texting while driving if they learn about it. Not just when working, any time. Some companies charitable donations are essentially mandatory.
Some places have dress up (or down days). If you are at a higher level or want to be, you probably should not participate, or just do something subtle.
Many things are the same but in a different way. You still have political childish BS that makes you think you are back in high school. You still have incompetent people promoted to management positions. You still have lots of isms dictating who gets promoted or gets bonuses or preferred vacation times.
You typically work 10 hour days with occasional longer stints and occasional weekend work. Either one is uncommon unless you get into a sweatshop type atmosphere.
You can take a few minutes for a personal call, text, facebook, CityData or whatever. What you do is not dictated, just as long as you get done what needs to be done when it needs to be done. However they will track you use of your computer, phone, car, etc. No one looks at that information unless you become a problem, but they track it. Sometimes IT personnel will watch you through your computer just for kicks they are not allowed to, but they do (we keep pot it notes over our cameras just to be safe)
What you post on facebook etc, can get you fired. That is probably true of teaching too.
No kids greet you in a grocery store with amazement that you actually exist and do things outside of class like shopping. No parents corner you to tell you why their kid should be getting better grades.
For us, a lot of things we learn are confidential. You cannot even tell your wife. You might know where some new corporate headquarters is going months or even years before it is announced. It is hard to keep big secrets sometimes, but you do not dare mention it to anyone, not wife or husband, not kids, non Mom and dad - no one. The risk is too big.
Stress is severe but different. If you make a mistake, miss something are not on top of your game one day, it can cost tens of millions. People can die. Families can end up bankrupt. You can have a lot riding on a single action or decision.
Sometimes, even when you are not busy, you have to be in early and work late, just to be seen.
You are not the center of attention, when you are it is often not a good thing. You may get chewed out, sworn at humiliated at meetings in front of your coworkers. It may or may not be justified. You may not cry.
You do not get planning time or in-service days. It is go go go go go all day. Sometimes you cannot take time out for lunch, just grab a snack bar out of your desk.
When you leave work, everything is closed. It is too late to run errands and you are too tired. On the other hand, not many people start before 8 a.m. I pretty much come in when I want to, but if I come in late, I will leave late.
That sums up corporate jobs very well. Thank you. And, contrary to popular belief, not all of these corporate jobs that he and I describe pay a lot of money.
I'm in a DC suburb in Virginia, a Right To Work state. Many here would not agree with what I bolded above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1
Count me among those who would not agree. A teacher here with two children qualifies for affordable housing vouchers (local equivalent to section 8), hardly anyone's definition of making more than the cost of living. When the average household income is $104,259 a $48,000 salary does not go far.
I'm sorry, I didn't word it properly but my posts were referring specifically to teaching jobs on Long Island. I'm sorry to hear that teaching jobs where you live underpay.
FWIW My take home pay is 53% of my pay after all is said and done. My daughter takes home 70 something % (she is a teacher). The biggest differences are 401K (She has a pension or whatever they call it now), HSA (Health savings account - pre-tax dollars deducted for medical use to cover the high deductible), insurance premiums. I cannot remember what the other things are. When I was a business owner, I also had to pay the "self employment tax" (employers share of social security) which I think was $13,000 or $18,000 (I also had to pay an accountant about $2500 a year to figure out my taxes). That also does not count the more or less mandatory contribution to United Way (not a significant percent, just annoying as hell).
So when comparing teaching salary to at least some corporate positions, you really need to compare take home pay. Hers is naturally much lower (she has 3 years of experience compared to my 30). However if she were at the top of her district pay scale, She would not really be that much lower when comparing take home pay.
The day after thanksgiving is not a holiday, the week days between Christmas and new years day are not holidays. You typically get one day off for Christmas, One for new Years. That is it for December. Sometimes you might get two for each if the actual holiday falls midweek. There is no spring or winter break, and of course not summer break. There is no change from year to year. No re-start. It just keeps going. Your job does not change. It progresses in small increments, but no real change. Same people, same tasks. That can be trying for some people, especially early on.
Later you will get more vacation days. Some places up to 25, but you can never take that many. I get three weeks. I have not been able to use it all up. We can carry one week over to the next year, so I always have four weeks available. I can never even use up three weeks. I used to get six weeks, and for a time, there was no set vacation for me. However I never even used a full three weeks. The longest vacation I ever took was 14 consecutive days (10 vacation/holiday days, three weekends). However during that time, I did 50 hours of work.
Your planned vacations are subject to cancellation without notice if something comes up. This can include jumping n a plane and flying back the day after your family arrives in Hawaii. Usually they will make up the costs.
On the plus side, your vacation can be at any time of the year dictated only by what is going on at work at any given time. As a teacher you time off is dictated by a set schedule.
Often we take a day to "work at home" which is what many vacation days are anyway. Working in your car at a campground parking lot or sitting parked at a beach watching your wife and kids play. Not always, but fairly typical. When you take vacation it is difficult to take more than 2-3 days in a row. If you take longer vacations, you will end up having to do at least some work during that time. Your vacation has to be coordinated with other people who do the same work as you. Your entire department cannot be gone at the same time.
Pay raises some steadily for a while and then maybe 2% every other year, or possibly no raises.
Bonuses or stock is where the income is later. That will vary with how well the company is doing. You never know. Your bonus can vary from $1000 - $300,000 or even millions. It depends on your level and performance. It can also be $0.
It helps a lot if you are good at marketing'sales.
You have to sink as much money as possible into your 401K at a minimum at least hit the company match. You do not get a pension or other retirement plan, what you save is what you get. This is always a surprise for some people. You really need to tuck 10% of your salary into your 401K if you want to retire ever.
Health insurance covers you. You can pay for more coverage. For our family it is $680 a month. We have a deductible of $1500 per person then insurance pays 80% with a total out of pocket of $4600 for the family. We have a health savings account that we use to pay for the deductible and the 20% and dental and vision (we have very limited coverage for either). The company seeds the HSA with $1000 per year to offset some of the cost.
Bosses and/or co-workers look over your shoulder, second guess and deride everything you do, steal your ideas or accomplishments and take credit for them. Not all of them do that, but there are always some.
You spend countless hours in worthless meetings.
Small perks can mean a lot. We have a professional chef who makes lunch for us 2-4 days a week. It is a big deal, even though financially it is not that big a deal.
Job security is always a concern until you are at very high levels (like CEO). No such thing as tenure. The need for you is based on the economy for almost all jobs. teachers are still needed in a bad economy, business people get RIFed.
As long as you have nothing critical going on that day, you can leave in the middle of the day if you need to, stay home if you are sick, take a day off for no reason at all.
Pay can be anywhere from about $10 per hour for interns, receptionist and the like to any amount at the top end. Most paths start topping out at $150K ish. Some never get that high.
At some levels you get a car or a car allowance. Some places you get a phone or a phone allowance. We get virtually unlimited data if we do not abuse it. (If you abuse it you will be billed for the cost).
You are subject to yearly and random drug and alcohol testing. You can be fired for texting while driving if they learn about it. Not just when working, any time. Some companies charitable donations are essentially mandatory.
Some places have dress up (or down days). If you are at a higher level or want to be, you probably should not participate, or just do something subtle.
Many things are the same but in a different way. You still have political childish BS that makes you think you are back in high school. You still have incompetent people promoted to management positions. You still have lots of isms dictating who gets promoted or gets bonuses or preferred vacation times.
You typically work 10 hour days with occasional longer stints and occasional weekend work. Either one is uncommon unless you get into a sweatshop type atmosphere.
You can take a few minutes for a personal call, text, facebook, CityData or whatever. What you do is not dictated, just as long as you get done what needs to be done when it needs to be done. However they will track you use of your computer, phone, car, etc. No one looks at that information unless you become a problem, but they track it. Sometimes IT personnel will watch you through your computer just for kicks they are not allowed to, but they do (we keep pot it notes over our cameras just to be safe)
What you post on facebook etc, can get you fired. That is probably true of teaching too.
No kids greet you in a grocery store with amazement that you actually exist and do things outside of class like shopping. No parents corner you to tell you why their kid should be getting better grades.
For us, a lot of things we learn are confidential. You cannot even tell your wife. You might know where some new corporate headquarters is going months or even years before it is announced. It is hard to keep big secrets sometimes, but you do not dare mention it to anyone, not wife or husband, not kids, non Mom and dad - no one. The risk is too big.
Stress is severe but different. If you make a mistake, miss something are not on top of your game one day, it can cost tens of millions. People can die. Families can end up bankrupt. You can have a lot riding on a single action or decision.
Sometimes, even when you are not busy, you have to be in early and work late, just to be seen.
You are not the center of attention, when you are it is often not a good thing. You may get chewed out, sworn at humiliated at meetings in front of your coworkers. It may or may not be justified. You may not cry.
You do not get planning time or in-service days. It is go go go go go all day. Sometimes you cannot take time out for lunch, just grab a snack bar out of your desk.
When you leave work, everything is closed. It is too late to run errands and you are too tired. On the other hand, not many people start before 8 a.m. I pretty much come in when I want to, but if I come in late, I will leave late.
Personally I don't like to get into tit-for-tat discussions when one says, "We have to do this" and the other replies, "But we have to do this". This is a very thorough and fair insight that you have posted. Very interesting to read the similarities/differences. Healthcare costs and benefits can vary widely. Yours don't seem too bad comparatively, but again it can vary. Thank you for taking the time to share.
FWIW My take home pay is 53% of my pay after all is said and done. My daughter takes home 70 something % (she is a teacher). The biggest differences are 401K (She has a pension or whatever they call it now), HSA (Health savings account - pre-tax dollars deducted for medical use to cover the high deductible), insurance premiums. I cannot remember what the other things are. When I was a business owner, I also had to pay the "self employment tax" (employers share of social security) which I think was $13,000 or $18,000 (I also had to pay an accountant about $2500 a year to figure out my taxes). That also does not count the more or less mandatory contribution to United Way (not a significant percent, just annoying as hell).
So when comparing teaching salary to at least some corporate positions, you really need to compare take home pay. Hers is naturally much lower (she has 3 years of experience compared to my 30). However if she were at the top of her district pay scale, She would not really be that much lower when comparing take home pay.
70some % does seem pretty good to me too. I'm a teacher and just did the math. I net about 61% of my gross.
FWIW My take home pay is 53% of my pay after all is said and done. My daughter takes home 70 something % (she is a teacher). The biggest differences are 401K (She has a pension or whatever they call it now), HSA (Health savings account - pre-tax dollars deducted for medical use to cover the high deductible), insurance premiums. I cannot remember what the other things are. When I was a business owner, I also had to pay the "self employment tax" (employers share of social security) which I think was $13,000 or $18,000 (I also had to pay an accountant about $2500 a year to figure out my taxes). That also does not count the more or less mandatory contribution to United Way (not a significant percent, just annoying as hell).
So when comparing teaching salary to at least some corporate positions, you really need to compare take home pay. Hers is naturally much lower (she has 3 years of experience compared to my 30). However if she were at the top of her district pay scale, She would not really be that much lower when comparing take home pay.
Teachers in many states hired after "X date" have to pay 401K's also, Virginia is one such state. The fabled incredible teacher's pension has been significantly cut in most states and only the teachers hired before the magic date have those pensions everyone envies, justified or not. If your daughter is in one of the 15 states that are non-Social Security participating, yeah she'll have a higher take home pay but she won't qualify for Social Security when she retires, which is significant. Even if she leaves the profession or transfers to one of the other 35 states, her Social Security will be reduced through the WEP and/or GOP, it isn't pretty and comes at quite a shock to many impacted by it. I know, I am one. Two states I worked in did this and it will wipe out a large portion of SS I might receive - although based on recent activity it looks like I am psychologically incapable of actually retiring.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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