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My experience has always been that it's not until the office referrals get to be numerous that the theory of not being able to manage the class gets brought up. I know that I was always reluctant to send kids up because I thought myself that it would reflect badly on me. I've never had a principal imply that I could not manage my class, when I sent a kid up to the office. But I do think that common sense would tell us that if we are sending more kids to the office than other teachers, that there might be an issue with the teacher.
Think about this from the principals perspective. They walk into two classrooms. Both classes are equally orderly when they go into them. One of the teachers has sent 20 referrals to the office in the first 3 weeks of school and one has sent none. Who would you think has better classroom management?
There are too many variables to make a blanket statement. The personality of a class is influenced by a lot of things, including the peer relationships among the students. Sometimes students will target a teacher for no reason other than it's entertaining to them. Other times there may be social pathologies that you can't identify until you start looking more closely. I've been on both sides of that kind of class.
A generation ago, I was sent to a classroom management workshop with the young blond woman who was scared of the kids, the old, deaf science teacher who would turn off his hearing aids and go to sleep in class, and the woman from Africa who couldn't make herself understood by the students. We were an odd group.
I was a seasoned teacher in two pre-algebra classes where the pre-test revealed that most of the students could add whole numbers. They could not subtract or multiply whole numbers, or do any operations with fractions or decimals at all. I couldn't understand why I was having so many problems, and the principal was becoming very irritated with all the referrals from my classes. (Never mind that the students in my other courses behaved themselves just fine.) I began spending every planning period documenting the students records, and the class profile quickly emerged to explain the serious conduct issues that the students presented every single day.
Briefly, of 26 students in one class, only about 8 passed pre-algebra that year. Most had failed 8th grade and had been administratively transferred to high school at age 16. The district policy at the time allowed one retention each in elementary and middle school. Looking at their records, I saw cases where students had all failing final grades in 6th, 7th, and 8th grades, but who had never been retained even once. One boy had failed every grade since his second time in first grade, but who was passed along every year. Three students had never even been to 8th grade, having been transferred to high school after failing seventh grade.
Whew! And that's just the academics. No wonder they couldn't do elementary school math!
I also made the point of contacting every parent in the class, even visiting the dangerous apartment complex where many of the students lived, because the two worst boys' mothers had no transportation. So I began home visits. They've made movies about this sort of thing! I learned that as far as home life, three students were under current psychiatric care, and most of the boys were on probation. One boy was under court order not to associate with anyone who used drugs. That essentially meant that he couldn't live at home, as his older brothers were all users.
Whenever I would send one of the worst offenders to the principal's office, the student would almost inevitably cuss out the principal, who would expel the miscreant. The principal couldn't make them behave himself, but he had the power to have the student permanently removed, which I did not have. Their parents couldn't make them behave, nor the police or the judges, one student at a time. But I was supposed to take 26 of them all at one time, and not only make them behave, but also teach them all the math that they hadn't learned since second grade! Walking on water I have not mastered!
I documented all of this over the course of several months. So when I was sent to the classroom management class with my school's participants, I made a point to speak with the presenter afterwards to ask what I should do. It was good to learn that I had done the right thing, and just had to stay the course until the end of the year. Every day I went in with the hope that it would be the day that I could make a difference in a student's life. At the end of the year, I didn't feel that I had lost, even though I knew that I didn't win--I hadn't made a difference in these students' lives. I ended the year with the sense that it was a tie. The few students who were able to pass the class were ready for algebra the following year. Most of the other students dropped out the following year. Many of them have been in and out of the criminal justice system after their years in juvenile supervision. The one from the drug family is in prison for a series of high-profile murders.
This is deep in the inner-city, but I clearly remember (and paid for as a new teacher) groups of my friends intentionally hi-jacking classes all through high school. And this was in full suburbia. If you teach long enough, it's likely to happen to you too. I've got it going on right now in one of my accelerated classes. I'm trying to ignore as much minor misconduct as possible, because these are good kids who are just acting like total jerks. Senioritis is rampant, with 110 of 165 seniors currently deficient in coursework or state test failures. They're cutting classes like they've already passed, and if they do come to class, the goal is to do no work at all.
To all the other teachers dealing with senioritis, Godspeed! Not long to go before we can breathe! To those of you who get to bypass this insidious malady, thank your lucky stars! Onward until June!
Last edited by lhpartridge; 04-17-2012 at 04:23 PM..
Reason: Sorry this is so long. I guess it's a catharsis!
There are too many variables to make a blanket statement. The personality of a class is influenced by a lot of things, including the peer relationships among the students. Sometimes students will target a teacher for no reason other than it's entertaining to them. Other times there may be social pathologies that you can't identify until you start looking more closely. I've been on both sides of that kind of class.
A generation ago, I was sent to a classroom management workshop with the young blond woman who was scared of the kids, the old, deaf science teacher who would turn off his hearing aids and go to sleep in class, and the woman from Africa who couldn't make herself understood by the students. We were an odd group.
I was a seasoned teacher in two pre-algebra classes where the pre-test revealed that most of the students could add whole numbers. They could not subtract or multiply whole numbers, or do any operations with fractions or decimals at all. I couldn't understand why I was having so many problems, and the principal was becoming very irritated with all the referrals from my classes. (Never mind that the students in my other courses behaved themselves just fine.) I began spending every planning period documenting the students records, and the class profile quickly emerged to explain the serious conduct issues that the students presented every single day.
Briefly, of 26 students in one class, only about 8 passed pre-algebra that year. Most had failed 8th grade and had been administratively transferred to high school at age 16. The district policy at the time allowed one retention each in elementary and middle school. Looking at their records, I saw cases where students had all failing final grades in 6th, 7th, and 8th grades, but who had never been retained even once. One boy had failed every grade since his second time in first grade, but who was passed along every year. Three students had never even been to 8th grade, having been transferred to high school after failing seventh grade.
Whew! And that's just the academics. No wonder they couldn't do elementary school math!
I also made the point of contacting every parent in the class, even visiting the dangerous apartment complex where many of the students lived, because the two worst boys' mothers had no transportation. So I began home visits. They've made movies about this sort of thing! I learned that as far as home life, three students were under current psychiatric care, and most of the boys were on probation. One boy was under court order not to associate with anyone who used drugs. That essentially meant that he couldn't live at home, as his older brothers were all users.
Whenever I would send one of the worst offenders to the principal's office, the student would almost inevitably cuss out the principal, who would expel the miscreant. The principal couldn't make them behave himself, but he had the power to have the student permanently removed, which I did not have. Their parents couldn't make them behave, nor the police or the judges, one student at a time. But I was supposed to take 26 of them all at one time, and not only make them behave, but also teach them all the math that they hadn't learned since second grade! Walking on water I have not mastered!
I documented all of this over the course of several months. So when I was sent to the classroom management class with my school's participants, I made a point to speak with the presenter afterwards to ask what I should do. It was good to learn that I had done the right thing, and just had to stay the course until the end of the year. Every day I went in with the hope that it would be the day that I could make a difference in a student's life. At the end of the year, I didn't feel that I had lost, even though I knew that I didn't win--I hadn't made a difference in these students' lives. I ended the year with the sense that it was a tie. The few students who were able to pass the class were ready for algebra the following year. Most of the other students dropped out the following year. Many of them have been in and out of the criminal justice system after their years in juvenile supervision. The one from the drug family is in prison for a series of high-profile murders.
This is deep in the inner-city, but I clearly remember (and paid for as a new teacher) groups of my friends intentionally hi-jacking classes all through high school. And this was in full suburbia. If you teach long enough, it's likely to happen to you too. I've got it going on right now in one of my accelerated classes. I'm trying to ignore as much minor misconduct as possible, because these are good kids who are just acting like total jerks. Senioritis is rampant, with 110 of 165 seniors currently deficient in coursework or state test failures. They're cutting classes like they've already passed, and if they do come to class, the goal is to do no work at all.
To all the other teachers dealing with senioritis, Godspeed! Not long to go before we can breathe! To those of you who get to bypass this insidious malady, thank your lucky stars! Onward until June!
This is what I'm thinking is going on in my 2nd hour. I had a class like this when I was at the charter school. They had a blast the day they got to do my reviews. After I was fired, a couple of them contacted me to appologize. It was a game. I was the target teacher. Without support from the office, it was a disaster. That's where I feel I am now.
I think my Juniors have senioritis, lol. Yesterday was our first day back from break and my usual problem hour was in rare form. After a talk from the principal yesterday, they were a little better today but not much. I can see it had little impact. I do, however, have permission to hand out detentions like candy....
This is what I'm thinking is going on in my 2nd hour. I had a class like this when I was at the charter school. They had a blast the day they got to do my reviews. After I was fired, a couple of them contacted me to appologize. It was a game. I was the target teacher. Without support from the office, it was a disaster. That's where I feel I am now.
I think my Juniors have senioritis, lol. Yesterday was our first day back from break and my usual problem hour was in rare form. After a talk from the principal yesterday, they were a little better today but not much. I can see it had little impact. I do, however, have permission to hand out detentions like candy....
I started out as a sub, and the elective classes, (physics, journalism) were a blast, the most fun and instructive I've ever had. The non elective math classes were the worst, especially if I had athletes in those classes. The kids were simply flat out jerks, they were there because they were showing off to each other. The problem for them was that I was a long term sub, so I had the power to flunk them when the tests/homework were graded, which I did, including football players and their cheerleader gf's. Sorry no, not in my class, if you don't do the work, you get blasted, simple as that. No makeups, no late homework, nada. When they realized that acting like chumps in my class would mean they wouldn't do what they wanted to do, they reluctantly attempted to act like adults. Funny, administration was on my side, the school wasn't particularly good in sports and they needed someone who would at least attempt to rein in the biggest idiots on campus. That two months was long and in most cases a waste of my time, but I made some headway with a few of the non athletes who honestly wanted to learn. For those kids a teacher will go the extra mile....
I started out as a sub, and the elective classes, (physics, journalism) were a blast, the most fun and instructive I've ever had. The non elective math classes were the worst, especially if I had athletes in those classes. The kids were simply flat out jerks, they were there because they were showing off to each other. The problem for them was that I was a long term sub, so I had the power to flunk them when the tests/homework were graded, which I did, including football players and their cheerleader gf's. Sorry no, not in my class, if you don't do the work, you get blasted, simple as that. No makeups, no late homework, nada. When they realized that acting like chumps in my class would mean they wouldn't do what they wanted to do, they reluctantly attempted to act like adults. Funny, administration was on my side, the school wasn't particularly good in sports and they needed someone who would at least attempt to rein in the biggest idiots on campus. That two months was long and in most cases a waste of my time, but I made some headway with a few of the non athletes who honestly wanted to learn. For those kids a teacher will go the extra mile....
The administration is not on my side. Sending kids to the office is proof I can't manage my classroom. Failing them is proof I can't teach. They, routinely, interview my students to get their opionion of my teaching. They seem to pick from the bottom third of the students when they do.
In the mind of the administrators, my good students do well because they are good students, my poor students do poorly because I'm not teaching them right and misbehavior in class is, obviously, the restult of my inability to manage a classroom. I've been told 30 times that the previous teacher was great and never failed any students. According to the other teachers, my best students pay me very high compliments. None of this matters as my PR is done by the principal.
I fear that what is really going on here is political. I was not the principal's first choice for this job. I was the superintendent and the vice principal's first choice for the job. The person the principal wanted to hire would take this job in a heartbeat if it were to, suddenly, become vacant.
The administration is not on my side. Sending kids to the office is proof I can't manage my classroom. Failing them is proof I can't teach. They, routinely, interview my students to get their opionion of my teaching. They seem to pick from the bottom third of the students when they do.
In the mind of the administrators, my good students do well because they are good students, my poor students do poorly because I'm not teaching them right and misbehavior in class is, obviously, the restult of my inability to manage a classroom. I've been told 30 times that the previous teacher was great and never failed any students. According to the other teachers, my best students pay me very high compliments. None of this matters as my PR is done by the principal.
I fear that what is really going on here is political. I was not the principal's first choice for this job. I was the superintendent and the vice principal's first choice for the job. The person the principal wanted to hire would take this job in a heartbeat if it were to, suddenly, become vacant.
Sure sounds that you've no friends with any of the bosses. This is why there needs to be teachers unions, because from what you're described, you have gotten jobbed badly.
Keep in mind something else. I found out that many SD are tracked in their entirety. By that I mean that, given specific demographics of the students in that district, specific curriculum is sold. Specific books, certain kinds of programs, specific teachers with grants from the state/feds, are all sold due to what they expect those students to achieve. I know that my former district was a poor one and that they expected certain problems and then bought millions of dollars of materials in order to fulfill what their expectations. Someone is making a LOT of money on this kind of setup, and you may not be fulfilling the admins/functionaries "goals" in terms of hitting their benchmarks, rather than yours as a teacher. It's completely bogus, I got in trouble for having after school tutoring programs if they weren't sanctioned by the school or district. I couldn't believe it, it was on my time, with both parents and students fully in agreement that they wanted their kids to get extra help on their math. What the hell was the problem? It seems that many of those kids who flunked or did poorly in math would end up taking remedial math courses at community college or a 4 year. Those institutions made money if they could fill those remedial courses. They didn't want potential students learning stuff in hs when they could pay big money to learn it in college. This is all from my observations and from thinking on some of what at the time made no sense. But in this context it becomes more clear. Again imo, but it makes me suspicious of many admins/SD motives.....
Sure sounds that you've no friends with any of the bosses. This is why there needs to be teachers unions, because from what you're described, you have gotten jobbed badly.
Keep in mind something else. I found out that many SD are tracked in their entirety. By that I mean that, given specific demographics of the students in that district, specific curriculum is sold. Specific books, certain kinds of programs, specific teachers with grants from the state/feds, are all sold due to what they expect those students to achieve. I know that my former district was a poor one and that they expected certain problems and then bought millions of dollars of materials in order to fulfill what their expectations. Someone is making a LOT of money on this kind of setup, and you may not be fulfilling the admins/functionaries "goals" in terms of hitting their benchmarks, rather than yours as a teacher. It's completely bogus, I got in trouble for having after school tutoring programs if they weren't sanctioned by the school or district. I couldn't believe it, it was on my time, with both parents and students fully in agreement that they wanted their kids to get extra help on their math. What the hell was the problem? It seems that many of those kids who flunked or did poorly in math would end up taking remedial math courses at community college or a 4 year. Those institutions made money if they could fill those remedial courses. They didn't want potential students learning stuff in hs when they could pay big money to learn it in college. This is all from my observations and from thinking on some of what at the time made no sense. But in this context it becomes more clear. Again imo, but it makes me suspicious of many admins/SD motives.....
There's definitely big money involved in educational supplies.
Here, I think they want the appearance of high standards with high grades. The problem is, the higher the standards, the lower the grades. I'm taking heat right now for having questions on my last test that I didn't answer in class. The questions were there to see if the students could apply what I had taught and put concepts together. I expected most of my students to miss them and they did. The ones tho got them are my real top performers. These questions are there to separate the A's from teh B's. IMO, they SHOULD be there.
This year is hard because I've gone from having an administrator who thought I was the best thing since sliced bread to one who really doesn't seem to care for what I do. That's quite a change in one year. I agree that this is why we need unions. I wish people would see that. Seriously, I have never been pro union before but this is a job where you can do everything right and still end up out the door. My failure rates are an issue here. I keep telling them we need an honors chemistry course so I can slow down the pace for an intermediate level and I get told my class is supposed to be honors chemistsry. I'm sorry but you, simply, would not expect everyone to pass honors chemistry. There is such a stigma on the low level chemistry class that many students who should be in it are not and, seriously, we need an honors chem class. My top 30% can fly. The next 40% can hang on for the ride. The bottom just kind of falls off... When I'm giving 25% A's and failing 20%, there is something wrong. I can delete material in order to stay on topic longer, bore the top of the class to tears (who then actually become my class disruption problems) in order to pass the bottom 20% but I give out 35% A's. Unfortunately, my administrators would be happy with that. Seriously, we need honors chem. I am capable of taking these kids to the heights they are capable of going to but the bottom of the class holds us back.
Back in the olden days, our teachers would take the recalcitrant student (sometimes me) and place them at the front of the class, and explain we were all going to sit there until the lesson was done, no matter how long it took, thanks to this person.
The smoking hot eyes of their pissed off peers is enough to pull most unruly kids into line.
We also had a headmaster who would make us do the lesson in their foyer ALONE with just their beady eyes watching every move. Terrible.
Back in the olden days, our teachers would take the recalcitrant student (sometimes me) and place them at the front of the class, and explain we were all going to sit there until the lesson was done, no matter how long it took, thanks to this person.
The smoking hot eyes of their pissed off peers is enough to pull most unruly kids into line.
We also had a headmaster who would make us do the lesson in their foyer ALONE with just their beady eyes watching every move. Terrible.
Times have changed. I got my hand slapped for daring to call on a girl who doesn't pay attention because I embarassed her. I'd be escorted to the city limit if I did this...but I do have a couple of student's I'd like to do it with...
Back in the olden days, our teachers would take the recalcitrant student (sometimes me) and place them at the front of the class, and explain we were all going to sit there until the lesson was done, no matter how long it took, thanks to this person.
The smoking hot eyes of their pissed off peers is enough to pull most unruly kids into line.
We also had a headmaster who would make us do the lesson in their foyer ALONE with just their beady eyes watching every move. Terrible.
Sometimes yes, and for the slightly anti-social students, like I was at times, it wouldn't have worked.
In 6th grade, I wasn't the "bad boy" or a "normally disruptive" student. I was basically a kid who did best when I was left alone. Being in a classroom where I didn't get along to well with alot of the students kind of made me ever so slightly antisocial. Putting me at the front of the class and watching the class get mad at me would not have put me in line. I am reminded of when I was in the 6th grade, and the teacher had a special review for a test. I was basically a sore loser and snapped. My team lost some points and they were mad at me for it. I didn't care how mad they were. I just got mad back. I was too angry to care who was mad at me. Group disapproval never worked on me because I was already at odds with alot of students anyway(I got bullied alot, I was socially awkward as well).
Back in the olden days, our teachers would take the recalcitrant student (sometimes me) and place them at the front of the class, and explain we were all going to sit there until the lesson was done, no matter how long it took, thanks to this person.
The smoking hot eyes of their pissed off peers is enough to pull most unruly kids into line.
Most students who are unruly are unruly for purposes of task avoidance and attention-seeking. Even in a hypothetical setting where this would be allowed, drawing MORE attention to somebody who is SEEKING attention via disruptive behavior is the last thing that would help combat it.
Most of the disruptive students I know wouldn't be in the least bit embarrassed by being held up in front of the class, they'd find it hilarious. And their peers don't get pissed off, either, they find it similarly funny.
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When I'm giving 25% A's and failing 20%, there is something wrong. I can delete material in order to stay on topic longer, bore the top of the class to tears (who then actually become my class disruption problems) in order to pass the bottom 20% but I give out 35% A's. Unfortunately, my administrators would be happy with that. Seriously, we need honors chem. I am capable of taking these kids to the heights they are capable of going to but the bottom of the class holds us back.
