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I think you are only considering tenured teachers and she is including non-tenured teachers. If you are including non-tenured teachers then we have had very different experiences. My experience has been that most years at least one teacher at anything but a tiny school was either non-renewed or involuntarily resigned because they either read the writing on the wall or were more or less told they should consider that option. Many years, especially at larger schools or ones that were forced to desperation hire, there have been several and it did at times look like an administrator cleaning house. Most were either first year teachers who it was clear chose the wrong profession or teachers whose next contract would make them tenured, meaning the district was essentially stuck with them unless some future administrator did actually go through the laborious process of firing them. Good administrators do often let people go - it would be ludicrous to think all people who end up being a teacher at a school are suitable to that particular school, or in many of these cases to teaching in general.
Besides.... Am I remembering incorrectly, or haven’t you told stories about numerous teachers you have non-newed, encouraged to resign, or actually fired?
Even tenured teachers these days can be fired. It takes more work and time, but it's no longer impossible. In areas like mine, where there are so many people who want a teaching job, it's not that hard to find a younger and cheaper replacement that makes it worth the trouble to get rid of a more expensive and tenured teacher.
First of all I question your contention that administrators "often" let people go. In 33 years of teaching and administering...I can count the number of teachers in schools I was in who got fired (other than normal reductions in staff due to funding or declining student populations.
In fact, if I went back and searched my old yearbooks, I could probably point out a couple of dozen teachers who should have been fired, mostly for incompetence, but sometimes for grossly stupid decisions they made.
If we're counting non-tenured, it was one or two every year. One year I remember it was 6 or 8, over 10% of the teaching staff. If tenured, then an average of one or two a year throughout my 30+ years.
You got your admin ticket way before I did but there was one class I took, I think it was called Educational Management and Practices or some such which should have been called How To Set Up Staff For Dismissal. Lots of tricks like having them teach out of field or loading all the problem kids into the same class.
One year we lost a teacher because the Principal "forgot" to sign the paperwork she needed to renew her certificate. That was another trick we learned.
With FfT getting rid of people is much easier, especially in our common Maryland system, since the teacher evaluations are Bell curved. Only X% of the staff can be exceptional while X% has to receive Unsatisfactory. Strangely enough, my last full year every one of the Unsatisfactories were teachers with 30+ years, including one County Teacher of the Year.
If we're counting non-tenured, it was one or two every year. One year I remember it was 6 or 8, over 10% of the teaching staff. If tenured, then an average of one or two a year throughout my 30+ years.
You got your admin ticket way before I did but there was one class I took, I think it was called Educational Management and Practices or some such which should have been called How To Set Up Staff For Dismissal. Lots of tricks like having them teach out of field or loading all the problem kids into the same class.
One year we lost a teacher because the Principal "forgot" to sign the paperwork she needed to renew her certificate. That was another trick we learned.
With FfT getting rid of people is much easier, especially in our common Maryland system, since the teacher evaluations are Bell curved. Only X% of the staff can be exceptional while X% has to receive Unsatisfactory. Strangely enough, my last full year every one of the Unsatisfactories were teachers with 30+ years, including one County Teacher of the Year.
Last year the minimally effective's (really an unsatisfactory in Michigan given no one will hire you with this evaluation.) went to two 30+ year teachers who were both laid off because they had the lowest evaluations in their departments (both chose to just retire), a 20+ year teacher and me. I got the lay off instead of the 20+ year teacher (same department) because I only had 7 years seniority. When I lawyer-ed up (the union did not help here) they agreed to change the evaluation in return for my taking a permanent lay off, agreeing never to even apply to a job in the district again (including subbing) and my signing away my right to sue for age discrimination. Three of the teachers given the low evaluation were over 50. The other was almost 50. Guess what they were doing?
If I teach again it will be in a private religious school where I have half a chance of being treated like an asset. I'm hoping not though. I got through the phone screening for a job in industry that is a great fit and will be interviewing either late this week or early next depending on the availability of one of the managers I need to interview with. I have my hopes up here. They called me on an old resume from a site I haven't used in 5 years. That makes me think they're having trouble filling the position. I know I shouldn't get my hopes up but I do.
I think you are only considering tenured teachers and she is including non-tenured teachers. If you are including non-tenured teachers then we have had very different experiences. My experience has been that most years at least one teacher at anything but a tiny school was either non-renewed or involuntarily resigned because they either read the writing on the wall or were more or less told they should consider that option. Many years, especially at larger schools or ones that were forced to desperation hire, there have been several and it did at times look like an administrator cleaning house. Most were either first year teachers who it was clear chose the wrong profession or teachers whose next contract would make them tenured, meaning the district was essentially stuck with them unless some future administrator did actually go through the laborious process of firing them. Good administrators do often let people go - it would be ludicrous to think all people who end up being a teacher at a school are suitable to that particular school, or in many of these cases to teaching in general.
Besides.... Am I remembering incorrectly, or haven’t you told stories about numerous teachers you have non-newed, encouraged to resign, or actually fired?
I am including non-tenured teachers...since tenure has meant little in school systems where I worked.
I wrote my other post sloppily. What I mean to say was that I could count on two hands the number of teachers in 33 years that I saw fired (and I did specifically refer to fired...and the thread is titled "reasons Teachers Get Fired".
Yes, I have referred to professional educators in my school (either when I was vice-principal or principal) who got fired by me or another administrator. But your phrase "numerous teachers" gives a false impression. 1 vice-principal essentially forced to resign (so I'll call that being fired), 1 teacher who frequently taught born-again-Christian religion and morality (which had nothing to do with his course content), 1 teacher who was so high on drugs that he walked to a nearby townhome community and urinated in a flower bed, and it seems like there was one more...but I can't the case right now. I guess that is "numerous", by strict definition, but that's 4 out of a staff of almost 80 over 20 years.
Now, a couple of factors need to be mentioned. We were considered the best (or at worst second best) middle school in the system, out of 24 middle schools, so we tended to get the best applicants and we hired carefully.
We also tried, as best we could, to help deficient teachers upgrade their performance. We provided out-of-building staff development opportunities, we coached some teachers, and I can even remember cases where we coached teachers (for example, one principal was a former English teacher and modeled a first period class for a struggling English teacher each day for a week; as a former science teacher I went in and modeled how to develop a pre-lab, lab, and post-lab experience).
There were a couple of other things that went on. You're right...occasionally (but hardly once a year) when he had conversations that started out with (for example), "Based on your observation reports and the problems you've been having with parents and fellow staff members, you may want to consider your future options...." Sometimes those option included thinking about resigning, or thinking about transferring to a school that had a different environment. But, at least to me, that's not the same as firing someone. In fact, it's often helping them to NOT burn their bridges. Although this is about a neighboring school's principal, I remember her...well let's just say that if tar and feathering were allowed, the community would have. She got transferred to a different middle school in another part of the county and became truly beloved by the community.
But again, and as you indicate, you and I may have had very different experiences. I was told more than once by the personnel office that our middle school had one of the most stable faculties in the system, and I remember when Transfair would come along each year, we would typically post among the fewest openings.
It often occurred to me that there was a huge difference between "loving teaching" and being a good/effective teacher.
I just found out the "official" reason I was manipulated into resigning. According to the superintendent, I am a great teacher but too quirky for this school district. I'm flattered. I wanted to leave anyway.
First of all I question your contention that administrators "often" let people go. In 33 years of teaching and administering...I can count the number of teachers in schools I was in who got fired (other than normal reductions in staff due to funding or declining student populations..
Is it possible, though, that lots of teachers who resigned from their jobs did so under duress? Pretty much the same as getting fired?
I just found out the "official" reason I was manipulated into resigning. According to the superintendent, I am a great teacher but too quirky for this school district. I'm flattered. I wanted to leave anyway.
Quirky? I thought being a little "quirky" was a desired trait so that the kids can relate to you instead of being a mundane stick in the mud. Me wonders what traits they're looking for in the perfect stepford wife teacher.
I learned the best thing to do with ANY job is just to keep your mouth shut and basically be an employee who flies under the radar. I rarely talk to our administrators and principal. I just say "hello" when I see them and make sure to stop by to talk after they come in for an observation.
Same! I try to avoid talking with administration at all costs. It's just better that way. A cordial hello or funny comment about something random to get a laugh is also in my bag of tricks.
Is it possible, though, that lots of teachers who resigned from their jobs did so under duress? Pretty much the same as getting fired?
What I would question here is the phrase "lots of teacher".
I'm also not sure I would use the word duress ("threats, violence, constraints, or other action brought to bear on someone to do something against their will or better judgment").
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Three of the teachers given the low evaluation were over 50. The other was almost 50. Guess what they were doing?
I wanted to leave anyway.
