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Reading this, I couldn't help but think back at my 4th year of teaching; I was in a junior high school in Maryland...a brand new school. Because it was a new staff, they could only formally evaluate 1/3 of us, and I wasn't in that third that year. But, at the end of the year the principal was required to hold an "exit conference" with a 1 page written summary. Mine was very positive, but I asked how he (the principal) knew that since no one had been in to observe me even once. He then spent 5 minutes telling me exactly how I conducted myself in my classroom. And he was 100% on target. How he knew what he knew, I don't know.
Lol - the kids talk and a good principal listens, keeping in mind the nature of the chatters. Plus, keeping off the radar says its own thing about your classroom management.
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I'm bumping this due to something which came up in Baltimore City a couple weeks ago.
It was announced that up to 1000 classroom teachers have to be terminated to meet the budget for next year. The Superintendent flat out said that senior, high step teachers would be targeted (that was her word) because they're more expensive.
I have a related question about long-term subs (please let me know if I need to post this somewhere else). My sister began subbing this year and, before even stepping into a classroom, was offered a long-term sub position at the school to begin this spring. She's never broke down crying or had a student get seriously injured, but, for two different classes, she has had to have help from administrators with student behavior (twice sent a middle school student to the office in one class; twice had administrator help with disruptive behavior of elementary student). I have heard about it from her after the fact, and, despite trying to make it better and asking other teachers and administrators for advice, she doesn't see how to fix the issues in any reasonable time. Now she is also worried that asking the other teachers and administrators will just count more against her because of the issues with behavior/classroom management and will get her fired. I'd like to reassure her that it won't and she is doing the best she can, but I've never taught and actually have no idea. I feel like reassuring her without any basis is just irresponsible. Were any of the teachers you have seen fired fired because of these types of issues? And would it be more likely for a long-term sub to be fired because of this than a real teacher?
I have a related question about long-term subs (please let me know if I need to post this somewhere else). My sister began subbing this year and, before even stepping into a classroom, was offered a long-term sub position at the school to begin this spring. She's never broke down crying or had a student get seriously injured, but, for two different classes, she has had to have help from administrators with student behavior (twice sent a middle school student to the office in one class; twice had administrator help with disruptive behavior of elementary student). I have heard about it from her after the fact, and, despite trying to make it better and asking other teachers and administrators for advice, she doesn't see how to fix the issues in any reasonable time. Now she is also worried that asking the other teachers and administrators will just count more against her because of the issues with behavior/classroom management and will get her fired. I'd like to reassure her that it won't and she is doing the best she can, but I've never taught and actually have no idea. I feel like reassuring her without any basis is just irresponsible. Were any of the teachers you have seen fired fired because of these types of issues? And would it be more likely for a long-term sub to be fired because of this than a real teacher?
At least where I was, long term subs had no contract whatsoever. There were rare times when we just had to tell them not to come back the next day. It wasn't being "fired".
I have a related question about long-term subs (please let me know if I need to post this somewhere else). My sister began subbing this year and, before even stepping into a classroom, was offered a long-term sub position at the school to begin this spring. She's never broke down crying or had a student get seriously injured, but, for two different classes, she has had to have help from administrators with student behavior (twice sent a middle school student to the office in one class; twice had administrator help with disruptive behavior of elementary student). I have heard about it from her after the fact, and, despite trying to make it better and asking other teachers and administrators for advice, she doesn't see how to fix the issues in any reasonable time. Now she is also worried that asking the other teachers and administrators will just count more against her because of the issues with behavior/classroom management and will get her fired. I'd like to reassure her that it won't and she is doing the best she can, but I've never taught and actually have no idea. I feel like reassuring her without any basis is just irresponsible. Were any of the teachers you have seen fired fired because of these types of issues? And would it be more likely for a long-term sub to be fired because of this than a real teacher?
There is an expectation that certain students will misbehave if there is a sub, including some kids who are sweet little angels for the regular teacher. Every teacher and administrator is aware of this (if they aren’t, they are the ones who are perhaps inappropriate for their job), most take that into account when evaluating the effectiveness of a sub.
Things that aggravated me enough to think about placing a sub on the do not return list:
Showing up late
Making no attempt to follow lesson plans because they brought their own fun stuff to do
Complaining about the sub plans to the students.
Telling the kids they dislike the subject (such as science or math)
Telling the students the lesson left was dumb or a waste of time
Telling the students the lesson left was too hard
Telling students they don’t have to do work and can just chat
Talking on their cell phone
Just sitting at the desk reading a book or playing on the computer
Leaving the room looking like a hoard a vandals ran through it (indicating the kids were out of control)
Smoking on school grounds
Telling the students inappropriate things about their own personal life
Leaving the classroom unattended
Leaving school grounds during the day
Telling the students the regular teacher is or must be _______ (stupid, incompetent, etc....)
Using inappropriate language
Saying cruel things to the kids
Gossiping with the students
Basically if a sub shows up, makes an honest attempt to follow lesson plans, acts like a responsible adult, utter chaos is avoided, and no one gets hurt they can come back. Subs generally just don’t get asked back to a particular classroom or school if there is an issue, not fired. Often the district or school will still use them unless there are so many complaints that it is clear the sub stinks. Even then they don’t get fired, they just don’t get rehired the next contract year.
However, if she is a certified teacher and hoping to get on full time, there are some different considerations than just whether or not she’ll keep being able to sub - and different standards.
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Reason teachers get fired. Insisting on standards, high expectations for grading and behavior.
We have a teacher this year who is a very experienced educator, but his former clientele was college prep high school. He is now teaching in a high poverty/low college enrolled school, and could not moderate his expectations. (I'm not sure he should have to, but...) The administration are after him daily; daily lesson plans, and checking to make sure he adheres to them to the letter, his plan period is spent with administration defending his "teaching", daily observations, weekly evaluations via the district office, on and on. He won't get fired...no one has the backbone to actually fire anyone here, but...would you stay???
Reason teachers get fired. Insisting on standards, high expectations for grading and behavior.
We have a teacher this year who is a very experienced educator, but his former clientele was college prep high school. He is now teaching in a high poverty/low college enrolled school, and could not moderate his expectations. (I'm not sure he should have to, but...) The administration are after him daily; daily lesson plans, and checking to make sure he adheres to them to the letter, his plan period is spent with administration defending his "teaching", daily observations, weekly evaluations via the district office, on and on. He won't get fired...no one has the backbone to actually fire anyone here, but...would you stay???
Umm, this won't go over well but he needed to adjust his expectations (if he didn't).
The kids at his new school aren't likely as well prepared as those at his prior school. Sad but true.
I taught with a Math teacher for several years at two different schools and she was the same at both, 30 kids in a class, 29 failing grades with one D.
She couldn't figure it out but it was her. She typically taught Alg II and her claim (justified by the way) was that the kids didn't know Alg I. So instead of doing a review or even remediation she went ahead and taught Alg II and had massive numbers of failures. Kids got frustrated and tuned out which then led to classroom management issues.
Plenty of blame to go around from Admin to her to the kids' prior teachers to the kids.
You see that across the board in Math and English (and to an extent foreign languages), kids get kicked upward with gaps in their knowledge (that was very common in History) and lacking skills.
Have I mentioned I'm glad I retired. I don't even know why I check these threads.
Saw a thread on the work and employment forum regarding whats a more "fireable" offense - incompetence or laziness?
Thought about it for a minute and in my 11 years in the same high school I don't think I've ever seen anyone terminated due to poor performance. But we've definitely let some people go for a variety of other offenses.
Has any teacher on here actually had a co-worker fired due to incompetence / poor performance?
About the only way a male teacher can be fired is if they are found with a live boy or a dead girl
Terminated in my district recently in North Alabama: drunk in the classroom with students.
Terminated in a district I worked in years ago in Georgia: male teacher having a sexual affair with a female Jr. High student.
female teacher caught snorting cocaine in car on school parking lot.
I have seen many non-tenured teachers "pinked slipped" at the end of the year due to a variety of situations; poor performance, not teaching the standards, lack of classroom management, pissing off the wrong person, taking too many sick days, and the list could go on and on.
I have also seen many non-tenured teachers re-hired for another year when termination would have been the better option, but because there were connections and political string they got another chance.
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