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Old 01-15-2017, 09:02 PM
 
2,513 posts, read 2,795,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
How can someone without a high level of intelligence teach? I'll grant there are differences in intelligence and the type of intelligence needed for shop class is very different than, say, calc, but isn't intelligence appropriate to the field a necessary condition? Maybe not sufficient, but necessary.
Shop is actually a difficult class to teach. Father taught woodshop for 40 years. He also has a masters degree.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:28 PM
 
12,869 posts, read 9,093,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoleFanHSV View Post
Shop is actually a difficult class to teach. Father taught woodshop for 40 years. He also has a masters degree.

Didn't say it was easier. All I said was it's a different kind of intelligence. Which is my point in most of these discussions. Not everyone is the same and there are many kids who would be far better off if more schools still had shop classes rather than focus on college prep.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,917 posts, read 24,424,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Pretty much. Too much garbage busywork, the actual work of instruction gets short shrift.

Nobody goes into teaching so they can compile data and sit in meetings about meetings and meetings to debrief from meetings.
There is an assumption by too many teachers that the way they like to teach is effective. Teachers need to review data, just like they expect their students and their parents to. "Hunch", "gut feeling", and wanting to teach like they were taught 30 years ago just doesn't cut it. We expect our doctors to base their treatments on accurate data. We expect our lawyers to review the facts of case before trying it. We expect our mechanics to repair our cars based on knowing what it actually wrong them. We should expect no less from our educators.
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Old 01-16-2017, 03:47 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,129 posts, read 16,190,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
There is an assumption by too many teachers that the way they like to teach is effective. Teachers need to review data, just like they expect their students and their parents to. "Hunch", "gut feeling", and wanting to teach like they were taught 30 years ago just doesn't cut it. We expect our doctors to base their treatments on accurate data. We expect our lawyers to review the facts of case before trying it. We expect our mechanics to repair our cars based on knowing what it actually wrong them. We should expect no less from our educators.
I don't disagree with your point, I have always gone through various assignments and assessments looking for indications of whether or not they learned what I thought I was teaching. I will be the first to tell you that it made me a better teacher because every group of kids were different and I needed to figured out what worked for them, not what worked for me. I also know that too many teachers won't do that voluntarily, so they need to be forced, but it has gone way too far and has gotten to the point that it interferes with actual learning. We are at the point of diminishing returns and if something isn't done soon it will be hard to fix. It is hard to attract quality people to a profession with the promises of being either everyone's favorite puppet or their whipping boy. I would not become a teacher today if I were just starting out. Everything that was tedious about being a teacher has been magnified and the things that made teaching rewarding has been stifled.
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Old 01-16-2017, 07:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
... I would not become a teacher today if I were just starting out. Everything that was tedious about being a teacher has been magnified and the things that made teaching rewarding has been stifled.
Honest question: What about being a teacher has been magnified that has not also been magnified in every other profession? I'm not arguing that they haven't, just bet if you and I sat down over your beverage of choice we'd probably come up with a nearly identical list for both tedious and rewarding. I'll even start:


Increased tedium:
a. PowerPoint. More and more meaningless charts for meaningless management meetings.
b. Micro management to the point of nano management.
c. Management that doesn't understand the job they demand be done, so they have unmeetable goals, yet blame you for not meeting them.
d. Silly metrics that don't measure anything you do, yet distract from the things that are important.


Stifled:
a. Authority has been taken away, but responsibility has increased. "Mother may I" for everything, yet it's always your fault.
b. No flexibility to respond to different situations -- have to apply one size fits all prescribed solutions.
c. Creativity has been replaced by excessive processes and rules.
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:00 AM
 
Location: NJ
2,676 posts, read 1,271,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmoStars View Post
Is teaching an easy job?
Do you mean:

1. Teaching
2. Teaching well
3. Ensuring learning happens

Just getting up in front of a class and talking and not caring if they get anything out of it is really easy. Commanding their attention and involvement is harder. Getting them invested in their own advancement and making them masters of content, skill and the learning process is even harder.
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,917 posts, read 24,424,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Honest question: What about being a teacher has been magnified that has not also been magnified in every other profession? I'm not arguing that they haven't, just bet if you and I sat down over your beverage of choice we'd probably come up with a nearly identical list for both tedious and rewarding. I'll even start:


Increased tedium:
a. PowerPoint. More and more meaningless charts for meaningless management meetings.
b. Micro management to the point of nano management.
c. Management that doesn't understand the job they demand be done, so they have unmeetable goals, yet blame you for not meeting them.
d. Silly metrics that don't measure anything you do, yet distract from the things that are important.


Stifled:
a. Authority has been taken away, but responsibility has increased. "Mother may I" for everything, yet it's always your fault.
b. No flexibility to respond to different situations -- have to apply one size fits all prescribed solutions.
c. Creativity has been replaced by excessive processes and rules.
Yes, that!

And I think here's the reason: consumerism.

In the old days, we trusted that American cars were good. We trusted that products were good. We trusted that our doctors knew their stuff. And so on.

We no longer have the trust...and for good reason. We lost it.

Particularly in the beginning with the American car companies in the 1960s and 1970s, we were handed junk for our money. And, in my view, more than anything else, that started American consumerism. And that sense of consumerism has spread from business to business, from profession to profession. And education is not immune. The attitude -- whether it be in regard to legal requirements of the government (the old we are going to hold you accountable routine) or by the people (online services where doctors and hotels and yes, even teachers (ratemyteacher.com) can be evaluated by the general public -- is you're doing a good job? Prove it! That's what the current wave of standardized testing is all about -- we're going to hand schools billions of dollars...prove that we are spending our money wisely. And just for the record, it affects principals and superintendents just as much as teachers. We sit in just as many meetings and are actually more apt to get canned or transferred when those test score results get published if things aren't looking good.

But, when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. That's the way I looked at it. When, as principal, I sat in all those meetings, I decided that I should adopt what I always said -- there is joy in learning. What could I learn from this meeting? What can I take back to my school? What "best practice" don't we know about? It['s either take the positive road or sit there and mope.

The day is over when teachers (and administrators) can just go into their classroom (or school) and do whatever they want and say -- without proof -- that we (I) are (am) doing a great job. And we can't fake it. Now we have to prove it. Whether we always like it or not.

At the beginning of each school year, we had 4 days of inservice days for teachers (and btw, we administrators went through the same thing). In our school I always guaranteed that more than half of that time would be their time in their classroom. Yet, there were a couple of teachers who were always moaning about, "I need to put up my bulletin boards". Yawn. And then, in June, they would take down those SAME bulletin boards that they had put up 10 months earlier. That's how important those bulletin boards really were.

Back when I started teaching in the early 1970s, to be frank, we didn't know much about how the brain works. We didn't have ways of effectively communicating across districts, states, and whole nation. I remember wading through ERIC to find out about trends in education. Today, we know so much more about how students learn. We know so much more about handicapping conditions and how to treat them. We have a plethora of skills and techniques that we should be storing in our little black bag, so that when things aren't really jelling in the classroom, we can pull out a different or new trick from that little black bag. In the 1970s, we each had our own little black bag; it was often very small. Today, our little black bag is as big and as convenient as the internet.

Kids moan and groan about being bored. And so we tell them that learning is fun! Learning is exciting! And yet, we don't want to do it, either.
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,917 posts, read 24,424,171 times
Reputation: 33006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
Do you mean:

1. Teaching
2. Teaching well
3. Ensuring learning happens

Just getting up in front of a class and talking and not caring if they get anything out of it is really easy. Commanding their attention and involvement is harder. Getting them invested in their own advancement and making them masters of content, skill and the learning process is even harder.
Exactly. I think many people who are not teachers (and yes, some teachers) think that teaching is basically just lecturing.
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:59 AM
 
3 posts, read 2,105 times
Reputation: 15
It's not easy, it is emotionally exhausting but very rewarding. I've taught for 26 years in low income schools, LOVE the kids. Resources are stretched and everyone is demanding of your time and energy (administration, parents, specialists, your team mates) There are always kids who need extra time and reteaching, there are always ADHD kids, there are always know-it alls. You have to take every little munchkin and get them to the same place academically and it is HARD! It also requires common sense and intelligence - I have 2 masters degrees!

When I was younger I had more energy but it is too much now, I can't wait to retire. The amount of energy, creativity and organization needed to be a good teacher is exhausting.

If you want to work in education you may want to look into speech, counseling or OT. They aren't easy but you are less fragmented and work with small groups of kids rather than 25.
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Old 01-16-2017, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,917 posts, read 24,424,171 times
Reputation: 33006
Quote:
Originally Posted by paella67 View Post
It's not easy, it is emotionally exhausting but very rewarding. I've taught for 26 years in low income schools, LOVE the kids. Resources are stretched and everyone is demanding of your time and energy (administration, parents, specialists, your team mates) There are always kids who need extra time and reteaching, there are always ADHD kids, there are always know-it alls. You have to take every little munchkin and get them to the same place academically and it is HARD! It also requires common sense and intelligence - I have 2 masters degrees!

When I was younger I had more energy but it is too much now, I can't wait to retire. The amount of energy, creativity and organization needed to be a good teacher is exhausting.

If you want to work in education you may want to look into speech, counseling or OT. They aren't easy but you are less fragmented and work with small groups of kids rather than 25.
I always felt the easiest job in the building was librarian...even when it's done extremely well.
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