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i find the 'humanitarian' argument for the DP the only one that begins to convince me. all the others seem like revenge. i dont really buy that it gives the victims' family peace either. i think the only way they can have peace is through forgiveness, which sucks because that is so hard to do.
Just like you said you think...YOU really have no way of knowing what gives any family peace.....
I personally am against the death penalty. I have many reasons which have been mention already, but my main reason is that I don't feel I have the authority nor does anyone else in this world have the authority to be judge, jury and executioner. As heinous a crime as someone may commit, I don't feel that I have the right to take their life to make things fair, rid the world of an abomination, make things just, etc. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying let's just try to rehabilitate them and set them loose. If they have truly done something very heinous then keep them locked up and safely away from society. I just feel that I can't make that drastic of a decision for someone because then I'd be no better than them.
Relating to this I'm also against abortion (not that I want to implement a law saying women can't do this because I am not a woman and have never been in her shoes, so I can't make that decision for her). I don't feel comfortable taking anyone's life whether they are criminals or an embryo or a growing being, however you see it. It's funny to me how most people can be pro-life and pro-capital punishment or pro-choice and anti-capital punishment. Seems kinda backwards and hypocritical to me, but just my opinion. But for religious people (which I am not) I find it VERY hypocritical to feel that it is just to take someone's life for the wrong doings they've done. Does God not say judge not lest ye be judged? Personally I think that's a good mantra for anyone in this world religious or not.
Beautiful post. I am another Texan that is anti-death penalty and anti abortion. But your feelings on both subjects are just the same as mine. Especially the part in bold.
Is revenge just part of the culture there? Is it a left-over of the Wild West mentality? Is it their type of Christianity?
I have never had the impression that being in favor of the death penalty was a Texas only thing. A lot of people, like myself, don't believe there is any reason for tax payers to have to pay to feed and cloth someone for the rest of their life if they have committed crimes so horrendous that they can never be trusted to return to life in society.
According to this diagram all of the red states have performed executions since 1976. Texas has performed more then anyone else, I'm not sure why that is, but clearly most all states believe the death penalty is justified for some crimes.
The Death Penalty in Texas About 70 percent of Texans support the death penalty, and 49 percent strongly support it. About a quarter of Texans oppose the death penalty, 15 percent strongly so. The pollsters said support for death penalty appears to have diminished slightly from previous surveys, and they speculated that recent reports of judicial errors may have played a role (Star-Telegram, June 14, 2007).
Texans Support Option of Life Without Parole, Question Accuracy of Death Penalty A Winter 2003 Texas Poll found that although a majority of Texans support the death penalty, 72% of respondents said they would like juries to be given the sentencing option in capital cases of life wihtout parole. The poll also shows that 69% of respondents believe the state has executed innocent people. (Dallas Morning News, March 16, 2003)A Winter 2003 Texas Poll found that although a majority of Texans support the death penalty, 72% of respondents said they would like juries to be given the sentencing option in capital cases of life wihtout parole. The poll also shows that 69% of respondents believe the state has executed innocent people. (Dallas Morning News, March 16, 2003)
Houston Chronicle Poll Examines State, National Opinion on Death Penalty A Houston Chronicle poll examined how Houston residents view the death penalty compared to Texas and the rest of the nation. About one-third of Texas' death row is from Harris County (Houston). The poll revealed that only a slim majority of Harris County residents (52.5%) and Texans (59.2%) believe that the death penalty is applied fairly, and nearly the same number of respondents (59.2% and 55.3%, respectively) said that they believe Texas has executed an innocent person. Nationally, only 43.5% of Americans believe the death penalty is applied fairly and 25.1% believe that an innocent person has been executed in their state. The poll also captured information regarding the execution of juvenile offenders and those who are mentally impaired, deterrence, and how factors such as geography and race shape public opinion regarding capital punishment. For more information about the poll, view the Houston Chronicle special report. (Houston Chronicle December 31, 2002).
I personally am against the death penalty. I have many reasons which have been mention already, but my main reason is that I don't feel I have the authority nor does anyone else in this world have the authority to be judge, jury and executioner. As heinous a crime as someone may commit, I don't feel that I have the right to take their life to make things fair, rid the world of an abomination, make things just, etc. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying let's just try to rehabilitate them and set them loose. If they have truly done something very heinous then keep them locked up and safely away from society. I just feel that I can't make that drastic of a decision for someone because then I'd be no better than them.
Relating to this I'm also against abortion (not that I want to implement a law saying women can't do this because I am not a woman and have never been in her shoes, so I can't make that decision for her). I don't feel comfortable taking anyone's life whether they are criminals or an embryo or a growing being, however you see it. It's funny to me how most people can be pro-life and pro-capital punishment or pro-choice and anti-capital punishment. Seems kinda backwards and hypocritical to me, but just my opinion. But for religious people (which I am not) I find it VERY hypocritical to feel that it is just to take someone's life for the wrong doings they've done. Does God not say judge not lest ye be judged? Personally I think that's a good mantra for anyone in this world religious or not.
What kind of lawless world would we live if we had no criminal justice system? And no one was judged or punished for their crimes?
Relating to this I'm also against abortion (not that I want to implement a law saying women can't do this because I am not a woman and have never been in her shoes, so I can't make that decision for her). I don't feel comfortable taking anyone's life whether they are criminals or an embryo or a growing being, however you see it. It's funny to me how most people can be pro-life and pro-capital punishment or pro-choice and anti-capital punishment. Seems kinda backwards and hypocritical to me, but just my opinion. But for religious people (which I am not) I find it VERY hypocritical to feel that it is just to take someone's life for the wrong doings they've done. Does God not say judge not lest ye be judged? Personally I think that's a good mantra for anyone in this world religious or not.
Along with others, I would like to weigh in and address this (particularly the bolded part). And let me interject this beforehand. Portyhead? You wrote a very passionate, articulate, post and are obviously an intelligent and thinking person!
To your points though, I respond this way:
The reason there is no hypocricy in supporting capital punishment and also being "pro-life" (to whatever degree) is that it does not involve a conflict of morality. In one case, there is the terminating of an un-born innocent who never had a chance at life. The other involves administering natural justice to those low-lifes amongst us who make a conscious/deliberate decision to murder their fellow human beings, sometime for nothing more than $15 in a robbery and wanting to leave no witnesses, and/or, in the worst cases, sadistic, sexual, thrills.
Sometimes that latter involves little children that have been abducted just to satisfy their sick desire. And? Heart-breaking to the max? What do those little kids go thru during it all? Maybe they just cry out that "I want my mommie" To take it a progression further? There are some baby/toddlers who cannot even do that much. All they can do is scream in pain while they are going thru such torture and not knowing why...
I am sorry if I got too graphic on all this (I have personal reasons though). I just wanted to attempt to give the case (IMHO) as to how and why a person can be both pro-life and pro-capital punishment. In a nutshell, one is innocent and pure. The other is guilty of appalling crimes against their fellow human beings. And I used children/babies as the main example because they are the common denominator in this contrast/comparrison.
Lastly, the Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged"?
That one is tossed around very often. But seldom taken in its proper Biblical context. It means one will be judged by the standard they judge others. NOT that there is no justification to "judge".
If taken out of context, then, hells bells, a criminal justice system could not exist at all. As no jury would have a right to judge. No parent could make decisions on the proper rearing of their children, and no person could have the individual authority to decide who they want to associate with and for what reasons. The concrete fact is that we all make "judgement calls" on all these things. And to say otherwise is ludicrous and even hypocritical in its own realm.
I support the death penalty although I dont think it should be used against first time offenders, unless the crime was particularly horrible or was a mass murder. Everyone should be given atleast one chance to change their life, hell maybe the person they killed deserved it in someway.
However if you murder a second time the death penalty needs to be an option.
As for the people who are on death row that are "innocent." I doubt there are very few people on death row who dont already have long rap sheets involving robbery, burglary, rape, assault. It would be perfectly justified for an individual to kill them if they were caught in those acts. So I feel very little guilt if the state "accidentally" killed after the fact.
If someone does not have any criminal past and a murder is their first conviction I do not think they should be on death row, but people with criminal backgrounds definitely should.
I support the death penalty although I dont think it should be used against first time offenders, unless the crime was particularly horrible or was a mass murder. Everyone should be given atleast one chance to change their life, hell maybe the person they killed deserved it in someway.
However if you murder a second time the death penalty needs to be an option.
As for the people who are on death row that are "innocent." I doubt there are very few people on death row who dont already have long rap sheets involving robbery, burglary, rape, assault. It would be perfectly justified for an individual to kill them if they were caught in those acts. So I feel very little guilt if the state "accidentally" killed after the fact.
If someone does not have any criminal past and a murder is their first conviction I do not think they should be on death row, but people with criminal backgrounds definitely should.
I see your point, John, but keep in mind that there are many "degrees" of "murder" according to the Penal Code.
There is a huge chasm between, say, "negligent homicide" and "capital murder". And only the latter is potentially punishable by lethal injection. And should be. Most people who -- intentionally or not -- commit murder, are not of the sociopathic type. Often they are, say, hot-tempered people who express genuine remorse afterwards. Or do so in the heat of passion (as the old cliche' goes). Such as a husband or wife going crazy with rage and jealousy when the other is caught "in the act." These people may have acted wrongly and deserve some kind of punishment, but they are almost never a threat to society and innocent people.
This is why I don't agree with your position that a "first-time offender" get a break when it involves violations which are of capital nature (operative term here).
To warrant the death-penalty, one has to be found guilty of crimes of the most heinous/brutal/callous/appalling/ nature. If that is their "first offence"? Then get those scum off the face of the earth before they do it again.
Along with others, I would like to weigh in and address this (particularly the bolded part). And let me interject this beforehand. Portyhead? You wrote a very passionate, articulate, post and are obviously an intelligent and thinking person!
To your points though, I respond this way:
The reason there is no hypocricy in supporting capital punishment and also being "pro-life" (to whatever degree) is that it does not involve a conflict of morality. In one case, there is the terminating of an un-born innocent who never had a chance at life. The other involves administering natural justice to those low-lifes amongst us who make a conscious/deliberate decision to murder their fellow human beings, sometime for nothing more than $15 in a robbery and wanting to leave no witnesses, and/or, in the worst cases, sadistic, sexual, thrills.
Sometimes that latter involves little children that have been abducted just to satisfy their sick desire. And? Heart-breaking to the max? What do those little kids go thru during it all? Maybe they just cry out that "I want my mommie" To take it a progression further? There are some baby/toddlers who cannot even do that much. All they can do is scream in pain while they are going thru such torture and not knowing why...
I am sorry if I got too graphic on all this (I have personal reasons though). I just wanted to attempt to give the case (IMHO) as to how and why a person can be both pro-life and pro-capital punishment. In a nutshell, one is innocent and pure. The other is guilty of appalling crimes against their fellow human beings. And I used children/babies as the main example because they are the common denominator in this contrast/comparrison.
Lastly, the Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged"?
That one is tossed around very often. But seldom taken in its proper Biblical context. It means one will be judged by the standard they judge others. NOT that there is no justification to "judge".
If taken out of context, then, hells bells, a criminal justice system could not exist at all. As no jury would have a right to judge. No parent could make decisions on the proper rearing of their children, and no person could have the individual authority to decide who they want to associate with and for what reasons. The concrete fact is that we all make "judgement calls" on all these things. And to say otherwise is ludicrous and even hypocritical in its own realm.
Thank you for the informative explanation, TexReb. I feel likewise. There is absolutely no excuse for the rape and murder of a child- first time or many times or circumstantial, etc. A person makes that poor choice for some reason we don't know. Punishment by death teaches that one is responsible for the choice he made. It is necessary. Unless life of course which has the taxpayers burdened and probably a fate worse than a death sentence (Jeffery Dahmer).
Thank you for the informative explanation, TexReb. I feel likewise. There is absolutely no excuse for the rape and murder of a child- first time or many times or circumstantial, etc. A person makes that poor choice for some reason we don't know. Punishment by death teaches that one is responsible for the choice he made. It is necessary. Unless life of course which has the taxpayers burdened and probably a fate worse than a death sentence (Jeffery Dahmer).
I agree with you here, hdwell. Although 120% in favor of capital punishment, I agree that life without parole -- with the qualification of having to serve the hardest time possible (i.e. hard labor, isolation, no TV, no reading material save that of a religious nature, etc) would be more natural justice than the death penalty.
The problem is that there is no guarantee those so sentenced will not escape, kill a prison guard, another inmate convicted of a minor crime, etc. That is sorta the wrench in the works...
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