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Old 04-24-2011, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
1,507 posts, read 2,778,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Perhaps because it is a totally loaded and dumb question...and you know it. It is not intended to do anything except stir up trouble. I can almost even see the smirk...

Why in the heck should it matter to YOU if someone DOES pray for rain? For some reason though, I get the distinct impression that that is what it is all about for you.

What is your point here, really? Trying to make a clever little maze of "logic" to "prove" that prayer is pointless? If so, then why not just step up to the plate and say hey, I don't believe in God and think anyone who does is an idiot? Might as well pray to a store window dummy. There is no need to knock yourself out and try and impress with all these if this and then that type stuff, fer gosh sakes....
Whatever....

**********************

BTW -- BO? I understand the warning. You're a fair person/Moderator and I'm sorry if I got out of line. I hope what I said didn't violate the 2nd strike. But just in case it did, then I am no longer going to post on this thread. I said all I have to say, anyway...and I do not want to be responsible for ruining it for others.
Why do feel like it is a loaded question and a maze of logic? I thought it was pretty straight forward.
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Old 04-24-2011, 05:09 PM
Status: " On and off line interchangeably" (set 14 days ago)
 
9,824 posts, read 11,360,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus View Post
Why do feel like it is a loaded question and a maze of logic? I thought it was pretty straight forward.
Why do you feel it needed asking to begin with?

Like I said. It is a dumb and loaded question. Dumb and loaded questions can still be straight-forward.

I don't understand in the least where you are going with all this, anyway.

What is your real problem with if people want to pray for rain? I mean, it is obvious you have a certain amused disdain for those who believe in the "sky wizard" (using your words from an earlier post).

On some level, you seem to think that those who believe in the power of prayer need to justify themselves to you (or who and whatever you believe in). Who are you or me either -- far as that goes-- in the whole scheme of things as regards faith and prayer and belief, anyway?

So that is what I mean. Why does anyone need answer this "simple" question of yours at all? Why is it even asked?

So -- ironically -- that is my answer.

Now then. Gotta go eat supper and hit the sack. Meanwhile? I plan to pray for more rain.

Don't ask me why I believe it will work. I just think it doesn't hurt much. G'night y'all!
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Old 04-24-2011, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
1,507 posts, read 2,778,395 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Why do you feel it needed asking to begin with?

Like I said. It is a dumb and loaded question. Dumb and loaded questions can still be straight-forward.

I don't understand in the least where you are going with all this, anyway.

What is your real problem with if people want to pray for rain? I mean, it is obvious you have a certain amused disdain for those who believe in the "sky wizard" (using your words from an earlier post).

On some level, you seem to think that those who believe in the power of prayer need to justify themselves to you (or who and whatever you believe in). Who are you or me either -- far as that goes-- in the whole scheme of things as regards faith and prayer and belief, anyway?

So that is what I mean. Why does anyone need answer this "simple" question of yours at all? Why is it even asked?

So -- ironically -- that is my answer.

Now then. Gotta go eat supper and hit the sack. Meanwhile? I plan to pray for more rain.

Don't ask me why I believe it will work. I just think it doesn't hurt much. G'night y'all!
When this thread first started some people expressed a belief in God, and that is fine. And some people expressed a non-belief in God (myself included) and that is fine too, it's exactly what you would expect of thread like this. Then some people started attributing the rain that did happen to their prayers. No big deal people do that all the time, but it did get me to thinking "did their prayers really make it rain?" That is when I realized that the answer to that question must be no, whether you believe in God or not. So that got me to wondering what the point of praying is then.

It is just a simple question, not a trap. I have read many of your posts and they are usually intelligent and well thought out, so I am a little surprised that you don't have an answer. (other than your non-answer answer)

However, the fact that you think it is a loaded question makes me think that you do actually have an answer, and it's the same as my answer. That must make you very uncomfortable.
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 8,114,678 times
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Traditionally, the point of prayer was to talk to God, not to ask for him to do stuff. It was to thank Him, tell him how things are going, etc.
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
1,507 posts, read 2,778,395 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
Traditionally, the point of prayer was to talk to God, not to ask for him to do stuff. It was to thank Him, tell him how things are going, etc.
But God already knows if you are thankful for something and how things are going, so there is no need to tell him.

The purpose of prayer must be to simply make the person saying the prayer feel better. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but we shouldn't pretend that it will make it rain.
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Old 04-24-2011, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 8,114,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus View Post
But God already knows if you are thankful for something and how things are going, so there is no need to tell him.

The purpose of prayer must be to simply make the person saying the prayer feel better. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but we shouldn't pretend that it will make it rain.

The point wasn't that God didn't know...it was the fact that humans had a direct line to God and could talk to him. Think of it as talking to your mother...just because she knows there isn't really anything new in your life doesn't mean she doesn't want to hear from you now and then.
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Old 04-24-2011, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
1,507 posts, read 2,778,395 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
The point wasn't that God didn't know...it was the fact that humans had a direct line to God and could talk to him. Think of it as talking to your mother...just because she knows there isn't really anything new in your life doesn't mean she doesn't want to hear from you now and then.
But telling God about your day isn't going to make it rain. Right?
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Old 04-24-2011, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 8,114,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus View Post
But telling God about your day isn't going to make it rain. Right?

No, but like I said, people have gotten the original intent of prayer confused. They seem to think God is basically Santa Claus now.
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Old 04-24-2011, 10:55 PM
 
995 posts, read 1,044,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
No, but like I said, people have gotten the original intent of prayer confused. They seem to think God is basically Santa Claus now.
Let's please keep the generalizations at bay. I for one don't think God is "basically Santa Claus now". I mean, come on, that's ridiculous. Just because there a people with messed up ideas about God doesn't mean everyone has that problem.

This discussion is really more about rick perry, and that maybe we should be chuckling at him, or sneering, or something. Not because he suggests praying, but because he's not a great person to have in office so long.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Abilene, Texas
8,717 posts, read 4,520,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus View Post
Ok, to keep it on topic here let's talk specifically about the request for us to pray for rain during the current drought. God knows we need rain already, our prayers will not add to his knowledge about that. According to what you stated above, God will do what is best for us regardless of what we pray for. So God will make it rain when he decides to, not when we want him to.

So why should we pray? So far no one has been able to answer this seemingly simple question.
Because in addtion to doing what's best for us sometimes God answers specific prayers and grants blessings in ways beyond those prayers. I'll give you a concrete example. I know someone who had a diagnosis of terminal cancer. The oncologists gave her no chance to live. She prayed for a miracle and she got one. Even the oncologists were baffled about her survival. They had no medical explanation for her being cured. I have a feeling that increased her confidence in praying for things she needed after that experience...lol. Even for other less serious problems/issues sometimes God answers specific prayers. When you see a change after that specific prayer it tends to increase your confidence in praying again. You sort of develop a trust-faith bond with God. When you display that kind of faith God actually blesses you in other ways, sometimes in ways you never imagined. Those additonal blessings include things that go beyond just "what's best for you". So, in our current example, for those that believe in God and have seen God answer specific prayers and additional blessings for having faith in him, again, not just things that are best for us but things beyond that, it is natural to pray for rain in a drought if you believe in God. You really have to experience what I'm saying to understand it. As a result, if the governor or anyone else wants to call for a period of prayer for rain, wildfires, etc., many believers are more than willing to participate in it, myself included.
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