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oh yeah, I forgot about the loft conversions...I was amazed to see what they have to offer. I was googling one day..wow...some incredible offerings for those who are looking for loft conversion downtown living. kinda resembles urban Denver lodo type units. and with the new brazos riverfront development coming along, it will only grow. good for Waco.
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Originally Posted by TexasTallest
I agree Waco has its flare if you dont mind a bit of "ruggedness" to your city. Heh.. I really enjoyed my years there and got to experience the urban renaissance in the downtown area first hand. Do you have kids? Do you want a house or something smaller? As seen on Fixer Upper, there are some bargains in the home real estate sector. But if you're looking for something more urban there are some great loft conversions downtown (avoid the larger/more mainstream complexes unless you are young and/or dont mind college students). A few really eccentric ones tucked into some of the old buildings along Austin Ave.
There aren't really any great small to mid-size cities in TX at this point. They are all pretty ragged in some way. Texas has nothing remotely like say Boulder, Asheville, Madison, Rochester MN, Santa Fe, or any of the really nice medium sized cities in this country. But I would agree that Waco seems to have the greatest upside of the small cities in Texas and seems to be on the right trajectory. Waco has two big advantages that most of the other comparable cities on the list do not have:
1. Location. Waco is pretty close to the geographic center of the triangle formed by the three major metro regions in the state: Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, and San Antonio/Austin. This makes it a perfect place to locate a business designed to service all 3 metro areas and why one sees so much light manufacturing and distribution centers going up in the Waco area. That's why Waco will always be more vibrant than say Amarillo.
2. Baylor. Waco could do a LOT more to incorporate Baylor. It is the largest private university in the state and one of the largest private universities in the nation but there is no real college town strip in Waco as one finds in most other college towns. But Baylor continually brings new blood (and new young blood with money) into Waco. Without Baylor, Waco would basically just be another version of Temple.
Other similar cities like Tyler are going to continually lack the energy one now finds in Waco because they lack a big institution like Baylor that is continually drawing new people to town. And the cities out west like Midland will continue their boom and bust cycle due to their near complete reliance on the energy sector. While Waco just continues to grow more steadily and sustainably.
Are you kidding me?
Look, I really like Waco, and I liked it before it was cool to like it, so it's not my intention to slam Waco in any way. But I can't believe you think that Tyler is "ragged in some way" and "lacks energy..because they lack a big institution like Baylor" yada yada yada. Are you aware that Tyler has three major hospitals, including a research hospital (UTHSC) as well as several colleges (UT, TJC, TX College)? My gosh, when was the last time you visited Tyler? It's growing in leaps and bounds and it's economy is doing great. The only thing "ragged" about Tyler is all the new construction that's perpetually booming all over the place.
Tyler is two hours (max) from DFW (I live on the west side of Tyler so it's even closer) and three hours from Houston. We ave a nice sized airport which is continuously busy.
Tyler's crime rate is MUCH lower across the board that Waco's.
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Tyler's job growth rate consistently outpaces that of Waco. Tyler has a higher average and higher median income rate than Waco. Tyler has many more professional jobs than Waco.
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Tyler's growth rate outpaces that of Waco. Tyler's median family size is slightly smaller, even though it's single parent population is lower than Waco's. (Tyler also scores better than the US average in many categories, including unemployment rates.)
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Waco's property tax rate is higher than Tyler's. Tyler's home ownership rate is higher and home vacancy rate is lower. Tyler has more new home construction than Waco. (Tyler also outpaces the US average in most housing categories.)
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Tyler has many more doctors per capita than Waco and higher water quality (also higher than the national average):
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Tyler's higher education rates are significantly higher than Waco's (and significantly higher than the US average):
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Like I said, I'm not trying to slam Waco. What I'm trying to show is how dynamic Tyler is. "Ragged" is not a word that would EVER come to my mind to describe Tyler. Sheeze!
I visited Kerrville a few years ago while roaming around the Southern Hill Country and it seemed like a pretty nice place. Also Stephenville in the Northern Hill Country is a nice smaller sized town.
Look, I really like Waco, and I liked it before it was cool to like it, so it's not my intention to slam Waco in any way. But I can't believe you think that Tyler is "ragged in some way" and "lacks energy..because they lack a big institution like Baylor" yada yada yada. Are you aware that Tyler has three major hospitals, including a research hospital (UTHSC) as well as several colleges (UT, TJC, TX College)? My gosh, when was the last time you visited Tyler? It's growing in leaps and bounds and it's economy is doing great. The only thing "ragged" about Tyler is all the new construction that's perpetually booming all over the place.
The way I read his statement is that Waco is a much younger and more transient town than Tyler. And he would be right. Not only does it benefit from having Baylor but it also has Fort Hood right down the street.
I'd say that Tyler is easily the more attractive place, and it's certainly not ragged, but it does feel a bit sleepy compared to Waco.
Look, I really like Waco, and I liked it before it was cool to like it, so it's not my intention to slam Waco in any way. But I can't believe you think that Tyler is "ragged in some way" and "lacks energy..because they lack a big institution like Baylor" yada yada yada. Are you aware that Tyler has three major hospitals, including a research hospital (UTHSC) as well as several colleges (UT, TJC, TX College)? My gosh, when was the last time you visited Tyler? It's growing in leaps and bounds and it's economy is doing great. The only thing "ragged" about Tyler is all the new construction that's perpetually booming all over the place.
I was talking about every single medium size city in Texas INCLUDING Waco in my first paragraph. Not a single one if them including Waco or Tyler are anywhere near as polished as the really nice similar sized cities elsewhere in the US. Frankly Texas does a really bad job of urban development and design. Within Texas I think Waco ranks pretty highly for small cities. Compared to similar cities in other states? Not so much.
As for Tyler. I was there a month ago for one of my daughter's soccer games. I saw lots of new nondescript sprawl development along the loop road. What is it...323? But nothing interesting at all in the downtown area. I must have missed the nice areas then.
The way I read his statement is that Waco is a much younger and more transient town than Tyler. And he would be right. Not only does it benefit from having Baylor but it also has Fort Hood right down the street.
I'd say that Tyler is easily the more attractive place, and it's certainly not ragged, but it does feel a bit sleepy compared to Waco.
Really? I never noticed Tyler feeling "sleepier" than Waco - and I visit Waco pretty regularly as well as drive through it regularly, since we have a son in college down in San Marcos and we live in Tyler.
Tyler currently averages about 20,000 active college students attending it's three main colleges. Baylor averages about 15,000 students in attendance. There are several smaller colleges or trade schools there that bring the figure up to about 24,000 (I haven't counted up the trade school population in Tyler so that 20,000 figure for Tyler is lower than the actual number of higher education students overall in Tyler).
I was talking about every single medium size city in Texas INCLUDING Waco in my first paragraph. Not a single one if them including Waco or Tyler are anywhere near as polished as the really nice similar sized cities elsewhere in the US. Frankly Texas does a really bad job of urban development and design. Within Texas I think Waco ranks pretty highly for small cities. Compared to similar cities in other states? Not so much.
As for Tyler. I was there a month ago for one of my daughter's soccer games. I saw lots of new nondescript sprawl development along the loop road. What is it...323? But nothing interesting at all in the downtown area. I must have missed the nice areas then.
Yes, you apparently did. Loop 323 is basically commercial and nowhere near "downtown." Also, the Tyler metro area includes many "bedroom communities" within a few miles of Loop 323. The metro area's population is over 200,000.
Tyler has several historical neighborhoods, including a "brick street" area (large) around the older downtown. This is a much sought after area of residential real estate. There is a great mix of older, historic homes, very well kept mid century homes, and new construction in Tyler. Most of that is not around Loop 323, which like I said is basically commercial property.
Really? I never noticed Tyler feeling "sleepier" than Waco - and I visit Waco pretty regularly as well as drive through it regularly, since we have a son in college down in San Marcos and we live in Tyler.
Tyler currently averages about 20,000 active college students attending it's three main colleges. Baylor averages about 15,000 students in attendance. There are several smaller colleges or trade schools there that bring the figure up to about 24,000 (I haven't counted up the trade school population in Tyler so that 20,000 figure for Tyler is lower than the actual number of higher education students overall in Tyler).
thats disingenuous.. you're counting all 3 of the "big" schools in Tyler to get that 20,000 active student number. Baylor alone almost equals that (we won't get into the elephant in the room that is the money all those wealthy Baylor students bring to the city), not counting MCC (9,000 students) and TSTC (5,000).. two other large colleges in Waco. Baylors endowment is also over a billion dollars more than UT Tyler. how many tens of thousands of people come into Tyler on game day for the big Tyler Junior College football match ups? Tyler is a nice city.. but theres nothing wrong with being second rate to Waco.
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Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
Yes, you apparently did. Loop 323 is basically commercial and nowhere near "downtown." Also, the Tyler metro area includes many "bedroom communities" within a few miles of Loop 323. The metro area's population is over 200,000.
Tyler has several historical neighborhoods, including a "brick street" area (large) around the older downtown. This is a much sought after area of residential real estate. There is a great mix of older, historic homes, very well kept mid century homes, and new construction in Tyler. Most of that is not around Loop 323, which like I said is basically commercial property.
did you not read the sentence where he said "but nothing interesting at all in the downtown area"..? he obviously ventured into the city. those areas you describe sound nice, but Waco has all of that, on a larger scale, so why would any of what you listed be noteworthy to a texasdiver? Tyler doesn't even have a year round downtown farmers market for crying out loud..
Really? I never noticed Tyler feeling "sleepier" than Waco - and I visit Waco pretty regularly as well as drive through it regularly, since we have a son in college down in San Marcos and we live in Tyler.
Tyler currently averages about 20,000 active college students attending it's three main colleges. Baylor averages about 15,000 students in attendance. There are several smaller colleges or trade schools there that bring the figure up to about 24,000 (I haven't counted up the trade school population in Tyler so that 20,000 figure for Tyler is lower than the actual number of higher education students overall in Tyler).
Now consider the fact that the average age in Waco is 27.7 while Tyler's average age is 34.5, which is over the statewide average. It's painfully obvious which is more of the true college town.
Waco's urban area is also larger and a bit denser than Tyler's.
thats disingenuous.. you're counting all 3 of the "big" schools in Tyler to get that 20,000 active student number. Baylor alone almost equals that (we won't get into the elephant in the room that is the money all those wealthy Baylor students bring to the city), not counting MCC (9,000 students) and TSTC (5,000).. two other large colleges in Waco. Baylors endowment is also over a billion dollars more than UT Tyler. how many tens of thousands of people come into Tyler on game day for the big Tyler Junior College football match ups? Tyler is a nice city.. but theres nothing wrong with being second rate to Waco.
did you not read the sentence where he said "but nothing interesting at all in the downtown area"..? he obviously ventured into the city. those areas you describe sound nice, but Waco has all of that, on a larger scale, so why would any of what you listed be noteworthy to a texasdiver? Tyler doesn't even have a year round downtown farmers market for crying out loud..
Finally gone too far with:
Tyler is a nice city.. but theres nothing wrong with being second rate to Waco.
No way second rate to Waco, overall, Baylor yes, the the thing that is making Waco so "kool" and popular on city-data, all of a sudden. Within the last year and before, most posts were negative about Waco. This WAS overdone then, as this "koolness" and praise is now.
There are far more nicer and or upscale residential areas in Tyler, even and upscale 14 story condo, in the Cascades, with million dollar plus homes, as well as other areas of Tyler, Hollytree, and smaller subdivisions scattered throughout South Tyler. I'll stop now. Could go on as I have done for years, but I'm tired of repeating myself for the uninformed, or under informed, which is what I mostly encounter on city-data. Waco fine, but...
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