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Thank God - Now the State is finally getting some culture & class, bringing in people with a decent education and income to relocate there (Californians & Yankees) - It's slowly starting to rid itself of its socially backward "southern uneducated red-neck image" - And for those awkwardly proud bible thumping Southerners - you'll get over it, and in the process bring in some forward thinking brain power to kick your state in the A$$!
Forgive my language, ladies, but alphajet? Go p*** up a rope. Better yet, take your angry and negative attitude as concerns Texas and Texans, and soak 'em with kerosene, stick it where the Lone Star sun don't shine, then strike a match...all the while on a bus headed north along I-35.
I do love this thread ... I certainly learn more about the glorious state of Texas (and the State of Mind that Texas imparts) from reading the oh so subtle and mildly opinionated posts than I would from a travel brochure .
For me to think of Texas is like looking at my native soil and learning to deal with the frustation of not having grown up there (was adopted out at 2 months of age, was born in Midland, could have been a friend of W's if the fates would have allowed ) and now trying to understand it all better. I learned of my birth facts just recently. It actually explains to me why my first visit to Texas 3 years ago felt strangely like more than a visit. More like "coming home". It was an incredible discovery when I not only had the actual proof I had been adopted but WHERE from. I DO have to state I would NOT ever want to have grown up with any other parents than the two who raised me. To have loved someone else's child as your own is one of the greatest gifts u can ever give someone, I feel. It transcends the biological facts.
But the question is ... South, Southwest ... yes to both but for me Texas is the West ! Love the Panhandle area ... as that is the area I have been lucky to taste so far ... and hope to be returning mid November for the Ranch Rodeo in Amarillo and to do some more photography at Palo Duro. Texas moves me, all of your collective comments amuse me, it's just hard knowing I grew up a transplanted Texan in Yankee territory (the city of Brotherly Love, Philadelphia). At least I can root for your ball club, the Texas Rangers. I have no idea why Texas imparts such a deep seated pride ... your history ? your larger than life every day personalities ? Your belief that you're right when (ahem) you may not be (judging from some of the recent posts here) ... it is true however ...
There is no state nor "country" quite like Texas !
Forgive my language, ladies, but alphajet? Go p*** up a rope. Better yet, take your angry and negative attitude as concerns Texas and Texans, and soak 'em with kerosene, stick it where the Lone Star sun don't shine, then strike a match...all the while on a bus headed north along I-35.
DAG UM Mr. Texas Reb ... u really got your Texas up for this post ... the dust ain't even settled yet on my computer ... what do you do to relax ? Throw darts on Political Posters ? This is the most riled up I have read you since I came on this post. Impressive. Up here in Philly we'd just say "go play in traffic".
I understand that Texans are proud of texas, but wow.
Ok, my family is from Mississippi, raised in Michigan, and I am about to join the over abundance of family that I have from my father's side in Texas, to live the rest of my days out.
I know southern, my family on my Mom's side embodies it.
I would say that Texas is more south west, because I hope that Texas doesn't celebrate a racist institution like the CSA. No one should be 3/5 of a person. I loved San Antonio when I was in the Army, I did encounter Rah Rah GO TEXAS when I was here, but it was not as obnoxious as some of it is in this thread.
A previous poster said that texas wasn't Southern, yet would place a CSA flag over the US flag? Seriously? That flag respresents everything that is wrong with this country right now. Decisive politics, decisive thinking, decisive living.
Why would anyone in the Texas call a Northerner a Yankee? To the Yankee, it's silly, is it supposed to be insulting? Cute? A freindly term?
People in this thread or as ridiculous as people from any other place.
All this CSA crap is just scary. It's too bad that's the legacy of the south, personally, it shames me to know that my home region ever called any hard working person, 3/5 of a person, and allowed Jim Crow laws to dictate life.
Texas needs to push that Texas is Texas, and not southern. The south needs to shed the proud legacy of racism, intolerance, and the North is evil crap.
I understand that Texans are proud of texas, but wow.
Ok, my family is from Mississippi, raised in Michigan, and I am about to join the over abundance of family that I have from my father's side in Texas, to live the rest of my days out.
I know southern, my family on my Mom's side embodies it.
I would say that Texas is more south west, because I hope that Texas doesn't celebrate a racist institution like the CSA. No one should be 3/5 of a person. I loved San Antonio when I was in the Army, I did encounter Rah Rah GO TEXAS when I was here, but it was not as obnoxious as some of it is in this thread.
I have a feeling the south/southwest debate will not be resolved anytime soon. Texas has elements of both for sure. If someone were to ask me what region of the country I am from, I would probably just say "Texas."
Now I've never lived in rural Texas, but I don't personally know anybody who "celebrates" the CSA. There are some posters here who have written about having ancestors who were in the Confederate army, but in real life I don't recall ever having a conversation with anyone here about it. It's just not a part of most people's lives.
Not to nitpick, but the 3/5 person thing was not a Confederacy thing--that was a United States thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CardPokerSlave
A previous poster said that texas wasn't Southern, yet would place a CSA flag over the US flag? Seriously?
I don't know who posted that, but I doubt most Texans would put the Confederate flag above the American flag. I certainly wouldn't, but I have no personal link to the Confederacy or the South. I rarely see Confederate flags in Texas. I saw far more during the time I lived in Arkansas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CardPokerSlave
That flag respresents everything that is wrong with this country right now. Decisive politics, decisive thinking, decisive living.
Do you perhaps mean "divisive" as opposed to "decisive? LOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CardPokerSlave
Why would anyone in the Texas call a Northerner a Yankee? To the Yankee, it's silly, is it supposed to be insulting? Cute? A freindly term?
Most people here don't in real life. I've seen the term used in this forum probably more times than I've heard it spoken in my entire life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CardPokerSlave
People in this thread or as ridiculous as people from any other place.
All this CSA crap is just scary. It's too bad that's the legacy of the south, personally, it shames me to know that my home region ever called any hard working person, 3/5 of a person, and allowed Jim Crow laws to dictate life.
Of course that's terrible and I'm sure the vast majority of Texans would agree with that (noting, again, that the 3/5 thing and Jim Crow-type laws were not part of the CSA but the United States). Again, I have no personal affinity or heritage that connects me to the Confederacy so it's just not a part of my life at all. However, I don't think that most people who take pride in their southern heritage are celebrating the slavery or discriminatory aspects of that culture. It's more of a recognition of the positives that people from the south pride themselves on--things like good manners, civility, and such. People should be proud of where they are from. Sure, there are some terrible aspects of the old south, just as there are terrible aspects of our country in the past. I'm a native Texan but I don't identify as a southerner but I think I understand why those who do are proud of their heritage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CardPokerSlave
Texas needs to push that Texas is Texas, and not southern. The south needs to shed the proud legacy of racism, intolerance, and the North is evil crap.
I think that now you're stereotyping. To say that most southerners celebrate a "proud legacy of racism and intolerance" seems very incorrect to me.
DAG UM Mr. Texas Reb ... u really got your Texas up for this post ... the dust ain't even settled yet on my computer ... what do you do to relax ? Throw darts on Political Posters ? This is the most riled up I have read you since I came on this post. Impressive. Up here in Philly we'd just say "go play in traffic".
Well, I thought about that one, but it didn't quite have the same ring.
Yeah, I guess I did get a little riled up. And honestly, I really am a laid-back, easy-going person most times. And I don't like to be rude to anyone. Even though I enjoy a good debate/discussion, I always try to at least keep it civil and respectful, even during a heated exchange. But yeah, I admit to getting my dander up when my home state is insulted and slandered. I apologize if I came across a little too strong on this one.
BTW -- that was a good line about throwing darts at political posters!
However, I don't think that most people who take pride in their southern heritage are celebrating the slavery or discriminatory aspects of that culture. It's more of a recognition of the positives that people from the south pride themselves on--things like good manners, civility, and such. People should be proud of where they are from. Sure, there are some terrible aspects of the old south, just as there are terrible aspects of our country in the past. I'm a native Texan but I don't identify as a southerner but I think I understand why those who do are proud of their heritage.
I think that now you're stereotyping. To say that most southerners celebrate a "proud legacy of racism and intolerance" seems very incorrect to me.
As usual, Sandstorm, you write an intelligent and reasoned post, while at the same time making strong and well-thought out points.
Unless something really leaps out at me, I don't plan to get too deep into the old Texas, South, Southwest or West thing. My opinion is well-known to most of the regulars here. That is, that Texas is Texas first, but essentially a Southern state, both historically and culturally, when placed in a region. At the same time though, I can understand why others might see it differently. You and I are a good example of how we can disagree on the topic, but keep it civil, courteous and respectful.
Actually, I concur that some areas of Texas (i.e. trans-pecos) are part of the Southwest of New Mexico and Arizona. I just think that, as a whole, the basic history and culture of the state is much more connected to the American South than the Interior Southwest. And believe it or not, that opinion wasn't formed overnight, nor has anything to do with the fact I am a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Regional studies have always facinated me, even when I was a kid. And it was just after lots of reading and research of my own I concluded that Texas is Southern. And that, when the "Southwest" label is applied, it really traces to the older and original definition. That is to say, as in "Western South"....where the South blends with a frontier "western" style and outlook. I always thought that old Texas Tourist Bureau slogan "Where the South Meets the West" was a good one.
But anyway, just wanted to compliment you on your reply to the poster earlier. I am formulating one myself, which I will post a bit later. And also to say you are exactly right. This subject of Texas' regional affiliation is not one that is likely to ever get settled. The best those of us with an opinion on the matter can do is agree to disagree! LOL
As usual, TexasReb is too kind. He's right though--although he and I see things a little differently, I respect his point of view and his pride in his Southern heritage and have actually learned a lot I didn't know from him. I think we're both pretty steadfast in our respective points of view, but he remains one of my favorite posters here and I always get a kick out of his polls. I hate that Texas gets an unfair rap for being an intolerant culture that isn't open to different points of view, because I think we Texans love a good debate and have the ability to still walk away with a handshake and a good feeling about the other person. To me that's one of those things that makes Texas such a great place. Hmm...that's kind of that southern civility thing I was talking about, isn't it? Maybe I'm a little more southern than I realized--hehe!
Sandstorm gave a very good reply to this post, but I would like to add a few things, myself...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CardPokerSlave
yet would place a CSA flag over the US flag? Seriously? That flag respresents everything that is wrong with this country right now. Decisive politics, decisive thinking, decisive living.
As he (Sandstorm) mentioned, I don't know anybody who said this. Can you provide a link to it? Personally, I am proud to be an Texan, Southerner, and American. And feel no contradiction. I display/fly all three banners. The American flag on the right, the Texas Flag in the middle, and the Southern Cross on the left.
Symbols mean different things to different people. I challenge you or anyone else to find a symbol in history -- flag or other -- that has not been divisive and/or offensive to somebody, somewhere, at some time.
What has always been so strange to me is that the same people who beat the breast drums about "diversity" and how wonderful it is, are the very same people who insist on a "one size fits all" shoe when it comes to reality. One of the things great -- or at least used to be -- about the United States is that a pillar of the structure was a recognition that each state had its own different history, culture, and etc. It was never intended to be one amorphous entity. Texas was not Ohio, and Mississippi was not Massachusetts, and Maine was not Michigan. What is so wrong with that?
Quote:
Why would anyone in the Texas call a Northerner a Yankee? To the Yankee, it's silly, is it supposed to be insulting? Cute? A freindly term?
The term "yankee" is just a part of the Texas/Southern historical vernacular. Whether it is friendly, indifferent, hostile, etc, really depends on the context, situation, and persons in question. The same thing can be said of how many of our English and Australian cousins refer to all Americans as "yanks."
As it is? I use it sometime, but almost always in a just general way. Hell, my own kids are half-yankee, as their mother is a northerner! LOL
Quote:
All this CSA crap is just scary. It's too bad that's the legacy of the south, personally, it shames me to know that my home region ever called any hard working person, 3/5 of a person, and allowed Jim Crow laws to dictate life.
Texas needs to push that Texas is Texas, and not southern. The south needs to shed the proud legacy of racism, intolerance, and the North is evil crap.
Now here is where we come to the crux of the matter.
I am sorry you are ashamed of your home region. But I respectfully -- and I mean that -- suggest you have have read too much of the northern version of things and have bought into it.
For example? You mention Jim Crow Laws? Did you know it originated in the North?
As usual, TexasReb is too kind. He's right though--although he and I see things a little differently, I respect his point of view and his pride in his Southern heritage and have actually learned a lot I didn't know from him. I think we're both pretty steadfast in our respective points of view, but he remains one of my favorite posters here and I always get a kick out of his polls. I hate that Texas gets an unfair rap for being an intolerant culture that isn't open to different points of view, because I think we Texans love a good debate and have the ability to still walk away with a handshake and a good feeling about the other person. To me that's one of those things that makes Texas such a great place. Hmm...that's kind of that southern civility thing I was talking about, isn't it? Maybe I'm a little more southern than I realized--hehe!
LOL
Thanks for those kind words and consider them reciprocated! But I can't resist "bolding" your summation and giving a LOL
I gotta bet you eat black-eyed peas on New Years Day!
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. 
) and now trying to understand it all better. I learned of my birth facts just recently. It actually explains to me why my first visit to Texas 3 years ago felt strangely like more than a visit. More like "coming home". It was an incredible discovery when I not only had the actual proof I had been adopted but WHERE from. I DO have to state I would NOT ever want to have grown up with any other parents than the two who raised me. To have loved someone else's child as your own is one of the greatest gifts u can ever give someone, I feel. It transcends the biological facts.
My opinion is well-known to most of the regulars here. That is, that Texas is Texas first, but essentially a Southern state, both historically and culturally, when placed in a region. At the same time though, I can understand why others might see it differently. You and I are a good example of how we can disagree on the topic, but keep it civil, courteous and respectful. 
