When will the State of Texas enact some kind of property tax relief? (Houston: health insurance, salaries)

[Sugarlandbubba]

Originally Posted by albert648

I don't trust politicians farther than I can throw them. My standard answer to more taxes is ALWAYS a big fat NO. ALWAYS.

State income tax is a dealbreaker as far as I'm concerned.

The max bracket on the federal income tax used to be 7% on incomes above today's equivalent to $14 million. We don't even have income tax rates that low anymore. Spare me. Taxes ALWAYS increase 100% of the time, and splitting the bill between an income tax and property tax is not going to change that. All that accomplishes is give politicians more ways to hide tax hikes.

Huh? You want the US to go back to 1913?

The max federal tax rate was 94% during WWII.

https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Lib...18c9fb2217.JPG

[albert648]

Originally Posted by blameyourself

But it will change. People with income will pay a little more, and seniors with reduced income (and less taxes on that) will see the benefit in a property tax reduction. That's why Prop 13 works in CA.

Yes, it will change. 100% of the time NOT in your favor.

Texas currently does not have a Prop 13. Let me know if we ever do.

The government is never, ever, EVER to be trusted with your money, under ANY circumstances. In fact, all taxes should be abolished and all services should be funded by user fees.

Where are income tax rates in California now? Hard Pass. Income tax in this state is currently and ought to remain 0% in perpetuity. When politicians demonstrate a long track record of fiscal discipline (yeah, pigs will fly sooner) then we can talk about giving them more money to **** away.

You want reduced property taxes? Demand reduced property taxes. Don't demand another tax in the hopes that the new tax will reduce property taxes. It's on your overpaid elected politicians to come up with solutions to reduce property taxes.

[albert648]

Originally Posted by Sugarlandbubba

Huh? You want the US to go back to 1913?

The max federal tax rate was 94% during WWII.

https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Lib...18c9fb2217.JPG

God forbid people get to waste their own money.

[albert648]

Originally Posted by WRM20

There is no way of knowing that. How do so many other states do well with a taxation system that includes property and income?

Actually I do know that to a reasonably high degree of certainty.

Per the Tax Foundation:

• Texas has the 6th lowest overall SALT burden in the United States.
• Of the 5 remaining states with a lower SALT burden than Texas, 4 (80%) have NO income tax (AK, TN, WY, SD). 4 of the 5 also happen to vote republican most of the time.
• There are 41 states out of 50 with a state income tax. 40 of them have a higher overall SALT burden than Texas.
• ALL (100%) of the top 10 states with the highest tax burden have state income taxes. ALL of them are heavily democrat or mostly democrat most of the time.
• US Average SALT burden is 10.6%. With the exception of WA State (10.7%), ALL of these states have SALT burdens below the national average. Texas currently stands at 8.6%. Michigan is the only state with an income tax that has a lower SALT burden and is tied with Texas at 8.6%.
• Average SALT burden of the 9 states with no income tax: 8.41%. Average SALT burden of the 41 states with an income tax: 11.05%. Texas is middle of the road among the no-income-tax states with a SALT burden of 8.6%.
• Conclusion: states with no income tax have among the lowest overall SALT burdens in the country, and ALL 41 states with an income tax have SALT burdens equal to or higher than that of Texas. One can therefore conclude with a reasonably high degree of certainty that one's overall SALT burden would increase as a result of the introduction of a state income tax.

Introduction of a state income tax is nothing more than a straight-up tax hike.

https://taxfoundation.org/tax-burden-by-state-2022/

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by albert648

Actually I do know that to a reasonably high degree of certainty.

Per the Tax Foundation:

• Texas has the 6th lowest overall SALT burden in the United States.
• Of the 5 remaining states with a lower SALT burden than Texas, 4 (80%) have NO income tax (AK, TN, WY, SD). 4 of the 5 also happen to vote republican most of the time.
• There are 41 states out of 50 with a state income tax. 40 of them have a higher overall SALT burden than Texas.
• ALL (100%) of the top 10 states with the highest tax burden have state income taxes. ALL of them are heavily democrat or mostly democrat most of the time.
• US Average SALT burden is 10.6%. With the exception of WA State (10.7%), ALL of these states have SALT burdens below the national average. Texas currently stands at 8.6%. Michigan is the only state with an income tax that has a lower SALT burden and is tied with Texas at 8.6%.
• Average SALT burden of the 9 states with no income tax: 8.41%. Average SALT burden of the 41 states with an income tax: 11.05%. Texas is middle of the road among the no-income-tax states with a SALT burden of 8.6%.
• Conclusion: states with no income tax have among the lowest overall SALT burdens in the country, and ALL 41 states with an income tax have SALT burdens equal to or higher than that of Texas. One can therefore conclude with a reasonably high degree of certainty that one's overall SALT burden would increase as a result of the introduction of a state income tax.

Introduction of a state income tax is nothing more than a straight-up tax hike.

https://taxfoundation.org/tax-burden-by-state-2022/

That study is entirely bogus and not based on reality. The methodology is horrifically bad.

[albert648]

Originally Posted by WRM20

That study is entirely bogus and not based on reality. The methodology is horrifically bad.

Your "we don't know that" is entirely bogus and completely not based on reality. The numbers don't lie. People in income tax states generally pay more taxes than people in no income tax states. Simple as that.

Someone brought up California here. In California, my income tax alone would exceed the property taxes I pay here. Property tax, of course, is on top of that, on top of an extra $1+/gal gas tax, higher sales tax, and higher CoL. No thanks.

[blameyourself]

Originally Posted by albert648

Yes, it will change. 100% of the time NOT in your favor.

Texas currently does not have a Prop 13. Let me know if we ever do.

The government is never, ever, EVER to be trusted with your money, under ANY circumstances. In fact, all taxes should be abolished and all services should be funded by user fees.

Where are income tax rates in California now? Hard Pass. Income tax in this state is currently and ought to remain 0% in perpetuity. When politicians demonstrate a long track record of fiscal discipline (yeah, pigs will fly sooner) then we can talk about giving them more money to **** away.

You want reduced property taxes? Demand reduced property taxes. Don't demand another tax in the hopes that the new tax will reduce property taxes. It's on your overpaid elected politicians to come up with solutions to reduce property taxes.

Not true. And yes, I'm well aware Texas does not have a proposition 13. A system like that works well for retirees that are established in California. It is not always 100% against you. And prop 13 is a good example of a system put in place and that did indeed benefit people that wanted to stay put in their communities.

Wouldn't it be great if you could just do what you suggest... Demand it and everything else taken care of by waving a magic wand. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

[albert648]

Originally Posted by blameyourself

Not true. And yes, I'm well aware Texas does not have a proposition 13. A system like that works well for retirees that are established in California. It is not always 100% against you. And prop 13 is a good example of a system put in place and that did indeed benefit people that wanted to stay put in their communities.

.....at the expense of people who want to or should downsize who can't (because their property tax bills would triple or quadruple), or new residents who want to move in, or any number of people who now have to make up the difference. California also taxes capital gains as ordinary income (which mainly live off of). So yes, it IS 100% against you.

Originally Posted by blameyourself

Wouldn't it be great if you could just do what you suggest... Demand it and everything else taken care of by waving a magic wand. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

Again, if you want property tax relief, the solution is to demand property tax relief and force the government to spend less. Not invent a new tax. The only thing inventing a new tax does is RAISE YOUR TAX BURDEN. That's how government works: the size and scale of government waste is exponentially related to the size of its revenue.

I am interested in ONE thing and ONE thing only - having as little of my money go to the government as humanly possible. Everything else is not my problem. That's what we pay politicians six figures to figure out. That's EXACTLY how hiring someone to solve problems works. If they can't solve the problem you hired them to solve? Here's an idea....fire them.

Here's a question: how does giving the government more ways to take your money without draconian austerity measures result in the government taking less of my money?

[albert648]

Originally Posted by Sugarlandbubba

Huh? You want the US to go back to 1913?

The max federal tax rate was 94% during WWII.

https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Lib...18c9fb2217.JPG

Why the hell not? Again, god forbid people get to waste their own money.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by albert648

.....at the expense of people who want to or should downsize who can't (because their property tax bills would triple or quadruple), or new residents who want to move in, or any number of people who now have to make up the difference. So yes, it IS 100% against you.



Again, if you want property tax relief, the solution is to demand property tax relief and force the government to spend less. Not invent a new tax. The only thing inventing a new tax does is RAISE YOUR TAX BURDEN.

I am interested in ONE thing and ONE thing only - having as little of my money go to the government as humanly possible. Everything else is not my problem. That's what we pay politicians six figures to figure out. That's EXACTLY how hiring someone to solve problems works.

The problem with demanding that property taxes go down by spending less is not too viable. Take Houston. The budget for police and fire for the City of Houston is more than property tax collections. The difference is made up by sales taxes. There is no way Houston can cut property taxes enough to make a difference in the bills, and still do everything the City is supposed to do.

Harris County? Same thing, the majority of the budget goes to law enforcement, and the County doesn't get any sales taxes, so it is funded entirely by property taxes.

Houston ISD? Lowest property tax rate in the Houston area for school districts. And is always trying to fund everything a school district is supposed to do by cutting out costs wherever possible.

School taxes would go down if the State funded schools appropriately. Before some changes were made, Austin ISD was sending $500 million per year to the State in recapture. Austin ISD said average school taxes in the district would drop by $1,400 per year if the recapture was stopped.