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C'mon moveagain - they can't be that sensitive. If they are so susceptible and sensitive to a stranger on an online forum so called 'ridiculing' them than I think it just proves my point that really, perhaps the problem is they need to loosen up, lighten up and open themselves up to new experiences. We can play the blame Toronto game but ultimately - that won't help them! Getting out, networking, actually having the courage to meet people in the city is really important for them. Really Toronto is a backdrop. You can only blame 'it' so much until you realize that maybe instead of blaming the place and the people in it - you should look more introspectively. I think if they take that step - the next step will become obvious.
You can spin this all you want, but the sensitive ones seem to be those who can’t stand anything slightly negative about Toronto ... it’s no big deal if it’s hard to make new friends , maybe Toronto folks are not for everybody, maybe outside people are not for Toronto locals, either way life goes on, nobody is going to die from this - my work place has a lot of people from different countries and a lot of Toronto locals, and it is actually the consensus shared by just about everyone including the locals, as well as the local friends I made outside work - using their own words: people from Toronto “are usually more guarded” - it doesn’t mean people don’t make friends AT ALL, it just means it’s harder
You can spin this all you want, but the sensitive ones seem to be those who can’t stand anything slightly negative about Toronto ... it’s no big deal if it’s hard to make new friends , maybe Toronto folks are not for everybody, maybe outside people are not for Toronto locals, either way life goes on, nobody is going to die from this - my work place has a lot of people from different countries and a lot of Toronto locals, and it is actually the consensus shared by just about everyone including the locals, as well as the local friends I made outside work - using their own words: people from Toronto “are usually more guarded” - it doesn’t mean people don’t make friends AT ALL, it just means it’s harder
I find it interesting that you are accusing me of spinning anything. We are having a discussion. I think you accused me earlier of 'ridiculing' people yet here you are saying that i'm 'spinning' things. So who exactly is being difficult here. Think about that!
I really find it fascinating that generalizations are being made about a city. With lots and lots of people as somehow being collectively alike. There are some mild generalizations that can be made but If I take a cross section of any group either at work or in pretty much any environment you get a mixed bag of personalities. That is far stronger than any sort of 'collective' coldness about Toronto or difficulties making friends.
As a matter of fact, I also work in an environment where there are people from lots of countries and if you think about it - shouldn't they be changing the face of the city - especially if they are from places where it is easier to socialize. Toronto has now more people born outside of it than within. More visible minorities than not. Shouldn't that factor into things if this collective coldness is as pervasive as what is claimed.
On another note - in my interactions at work and in social settings, I have never discussed this subject - it has never come up. We are too busy - socializing.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,036,872 times
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I've said this before but I'll say it again: You get what you give. Friendliness begets friendliness.
I lived in New England for 10 or so years. Connecticut people are known to be cold. (I prefer to say that they're just reserved.) They keep to themselves. They won't initiate conversation (which leads to friendship). They are cool customers -- they already have their circle of friends and don't need you.
When I moved there, everyone who knew me said "Oh boy, this isn't going to be fun for you." I figured it would be quite the opposite: I was going to crack these tough Connecticut nuts! I talk to everyone -- I engage -- and I wasn't about to change.
Sure enough, on the day that we closed on our house, I took my dog for a walk in the neighborhood. It was a cul-de-sac and some people were outside. I said "hi," they said "HI!" We chatted. That evening, my (now ex-)husband and I walked the dog together. Some of those same people were outside again and said "Hi, Dawn! Hi, Artie!" (Artie was my dog.) My husband said "We just moved here TODAY! How do these people know you???" What? I greeted them, we exchanged names, conversation ensued. Over the time that I lived there, some of these people came to be friends. Some of those friends came to be close friends.
Five years later, I moved to Massachusetts (same cool customers as in Connecticut), then back to Montreal. As I sit here in my new home in Ottawa a dozen years later, I'm proud to say that I'm *still* close friends with many of those people. I speak to several of them on a weekly basis. One woman and her husband (from Connecticut) were in Montreal a few months ago and texted me "Come have dinner with us!"
If I could socialize in New England (the land of reserved [aka cold] people), you can socialize in Toronto. People are people. People like to be engaged, to be drawn out and drawn into your world. Like I said: friendliness begets friendliness and, in return, you'll get what you give. In abundance.
I find it interesting that you are accusing me of spinning anything. We are having a discussion. I think you accused me earlier of 'ridiculing' people yet here you are saying that i'm 'spinning' things. So who exactly is being difficult here. Think about that!
I really find it fascinating that generalizations are being made about a city. With lots and lots of people as somehow being collectively alike. There are some mild generalizations that can be made but If I take a cross section of any group either at work or in pretty much any environment you get a mixed bag of personalities. That is far stronger than any sort of 'collective' coldness about Toronto or difficulties making friends.
As a matter of fact, I also work in an environment where there are people from lots of countries and if you think about it - shouldn't they be changing the face of the city - especially if they are from places where it is easier to socialize. Toronto has now more people born outside of it than within. More visible minorities than not. Shouldn't that factor into things if this collective coldness is as pervasive as what is claimed.
On another note - in my interactions at work and in social settings, I have never discussed this subject - it has never come up. We are too busy - socializing.
Lol, generalizations? I was merely pointing out an alternative explanation that’s equally plausible to a social observation, with no assertion of being right, while your way of “discussion “ always seems to be easily turning into imposing your point of view with a pinch of insult or ridicule ( I am an offender myself, but only towards certain behaviors, not when it comes to an opinion) I on the other hand didn’t think of it as a big deal . I remember clearly when one time we were “discussing” the noise in downtown especially the month long blasting of music during June , and you quickly turned it into “if you don’t like it don’t live here” and “buy a pair of earplug they are cheap” , while I wasn’t even really bothered by the noise myself since I have always been a sound sleeper, but I just mentioned it must be tough for old people and family with little kids or anybody who are more sensitive about it and the organizers should have been more considerate .. anyway, anyway, I should have learned my lesson when interacting with you
Last edited by moveagain; 04-11-2018 at 06:57 AM..
I've said this before but I'll say it again: You get what you give. Friendliness begets friendliness.
I lived in New England for 10 or so years. Connecticut people are known to be cold. (I prefer to say that they're just reserved.) They keep to themselves. They won't initiate conversation (which leads to friendship). They are cool customers -- they already have their circle of friends and don't need you.
When I moved there, everyone who knew me said "Oh boy, this isn't going to be fun for you." I figured it would be quite the opposite: I was going to crack these tough Connecticut nuts! I talk to everyone -- I engage -- and I wasn't about to change.
Sure enough, on the day that we closed on our house, I took my dog for a walk in the neighborhood. It was a cul-de-sac and some people were outside. I said "hi," they said "HI!" We chatted. That evening, my (now ex-)husband and I walked the dog together. Some of those same people were outside again and said "Hi, Dawn! Hi, Artie!" (Artie was my dog.) My husband said "We just moved here TODAY! How do these people know you???" What? I greeted them, we exchanged names, conversation ensued. Over the time that I lived there, some of these people came to be friends. Some of those friends came to be close friends.
Five years later, I moved to Massachusetts (same cool customers as in Connecticut), then back to Montreal. As I sit here in my new home in Ottawa a dozen years later, I'm proud to say that I'm *still* close friends with many of those people. I speak to several of them on a weekly basis. One woman and her husband (from Connecticut) were in Montreal a few months ago and texted me "Come have dinner with us!"
If I could socialize in New England (the land of reserved [aka cold] people), you can socialize in Toronto. People are people. People like to be engaged, to be drawn out and drawn into your world. Like I said: friendliness begets friendliness and, in return, you'll get what you give. In abundance.
I completely agree with you on this, everything you said is very true and nonjudgmental which is much more convincing than some others ��
But I would still like to point out that people are different, Some people are just naturally shy and not proactive about making connections , it may have a lot to do with the culture and upbringing and hard to change . Over the years I have worked/studied with some Mormon folks , and they are probably the nicest people I’ve ever met and none of them tried preaching when we were together (well, one of them subtly hinted but never went further than that lol), and being with them somehow pushed me out of my comfort zone to reciprocate. Now imagine a shy kid from Utah , coming to a new place where there’s no such an overwhelmingly welcoming crowds, of curse it is going to be hard .... which brings to the original point: nobody should wait for anything to be handed over, people need to work for things they want, including friendships, and in someplace one may need to work harder - just like owning a single family house is harder in some place than others - and Toronto may just be one of those places.
My personal case may be a bit unique too, since I don’t drink and don’t watch sports - it puts me in a very difficult position since in many places I have been to, these are all people do for socializing lol . I am able to manage to find a few friends to spend time with not involving alcohol and sports and I am completely fine with not having many friends though
Last edited by moveagain; 04-11-2018 at 07:54 AM..
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,036,872 times
Reputation: 28903
Quote:
Originally Posted by moveagain
I completely agree with you on this, everything you said is very true and nonjudgmental which is much more convincing than some others ��
But I would still like to point out that people are different, Some people are just naturally shy and not proactive about making connections , it may have a lot to do with the culture and upbringing and hard to change . Over the years I have worked/studied with some Mormon folks , and they are probably the nicest people I’ve ever met and none of them tried preaching when we were together (well, one of them subtly hinted but never went further than that lol), and being with them somehow pushed me out of my comfort zone to reciprocate. Now imagine a shy kid from Utah , coming to a new place where there’s no such an overwhelmingly welcoming crowds, of curse it is going to be hard .... which brings to the original point: nobody should wait for anything to be handed over, people need to work for things they want, including friendships, and in someplace one may need to work harder - just like owning a single family house is harder in some place than others - and Toronto may just be one of those places.
My personal case may be a bit unique too, since I don’t drink and don’t watch sports - it puts me in a very difficult position since in many places I have been to, these are all people do for socializing lol . I am able to manage to find a few friends to spend time with not involving alcohol and sports and I am completely fine with not having many friends though
I hear you and I agree. "Some people are just naturally shy..." Absolutely. I tend to gravitate to those people and lure them to the dark side. Really, I mean that I seek them out to include them more than I do someone who is more gregarious and will have an easier time of it, left to their own devices.
I don't drink either (although I'm sure that I'm much older than you are), so I understand how that is limiting.
I agree with you, also, about not needing *many* friends -- a few good ones are enough.
In a city with a metro area of 3 million people i would suggest any difficulty to socialize would probably be more to do with ops character than with the city itself.
Yup. With the caveat, that their character may not be a bad or negative thing, but shy, or awkward. If they aren't then there are plenty of opportunities to meet people. Join a club for instance.
I've said this before but I'll say it again: You get what you give. Friendliness begets friendliness.
I lived in New England for 10 or so years. Connecticut people are known to be cold. (I prefer to say that they're just reserved.) They keep to themselves. They won't initiate conversation (which leads to friendship). They are cool customers -- they already have their circle of friends and don't need you.
When I moved there, everyone who knew me said "Oh boy, this isn't going to be fun for you." I figured it would be quite the opposite: I was going to crack these tough Connecticut nuts! I talk to everyone -- I engage -- and I wasn't about to change.
Sure enough, on the day that we closed on our house, I took my dog for a walk in the neighborhood. It was a cul-de-sac and some people were outside. I said "hi," they said "HI!" We chatted. That evening, my (now ex-)husband and I walked the dog together. Some of those same people were outside again and said "Hi, Dawn! Hi, Artie!" (Artie was my dog.) My husband said "We just moved here TODAY! How do these people know you???" What? I greeted them, we exchanged names, conversation ensued. Over the time that I lived there, some of these people came to be friends. Some of those friends came to be close friends.
Five years later, I moved to Massachusetts (same cool customers as in Connecticut), then back to Montreal. As I sit here in my new home in Ottawa a dozen years later, I'm proud to say that I'm *still* close friends with many of those people. I speak to several of them on a weekly basis. One woman and her husband (from Connecticut) were in Montreal a few months ago and texted me "Come have dinner with us!"
If I could socialize in New England (the land of reserved [aka cold] people), you can socialize in Toronto. People are people. People like to be engaged, to be drawn out and drawn into your world. Like I said: friendliness begets friendliness and, in return, you'll get what you give. In abundance.
Good post Dawn. The thing that ribs me is that people are blaming a 'place' and all the people in that place. That to me is where it gets really silly and unproductive. People are people indeed. It doesn't matter where you go in the world - you're going to get a fairly even distribution of personality types. Anyway, it has been a long winter and its still cold - I think people up here are ready for the summer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
Yup. With the caveat, that their character may not be a bad or negative thing, but shy, or awkward. If they aren't then there are plenty of opportunities to meet people. Join a club for instance.
Actually many are probably really good people. The introversion and introspection can make the waters deeper. They just need that little bit of extra courage and confidence. I think the key is to take baby steps to move away from that comfort zone. I turned incredibly inward in my teens as I came to terms with my sexuality. It took me a long time to break out of my shell - baby steps well and a yearning to be with the boys was a major motivation
Quote:
Originally Posted by moveagain
Lol, generalizations? I was merely pointing out an alternative explanation that’s equally plausible to a social observation, with no assertion of being right, while your way of “discussion “ always seems to be easily turning into imposing your point of view with a pinch of insult or ridicule ( I am an offender myself, but only towards certain behaviors, not when it comes to an opinion) I on the other hand didn’t think of it as a big deal . I remember clearly when one time we were “discussing” the noise in downtown especially the month long blasting of music during June , and you quickly turned it into “if you don’t like it don’t live here” and “buy a pair of earplug they are cheap” , while I wasn’t even really bothered by the noise myself since I have always been a sound sleeper, but I just mentioned it must be tough for old people and family with little kids or anybody who are more sensitive about it and the organizers should have been more considerate .. anyway, anyway, I should have learned my lesson when interacting with you
Sorry for upsetting you and being dismissive of your opinions and feelings. I really do wish you well.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,036,872 times
Reputation: 28903
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
Good post Dawn. The thing that ribs me is that people are blaming a 'place' and all the people in that place. That to me is where it gets really silly and unproductive. People are people indeed. It doesn't matter where you go in the world - you're going to get a fairly even distribution of personality types. Anyway, it has been a long winter and its still cold - I think people up here are ready for the summer
DEFINITELY ready for the summer!
Yes, I agree, it's not the place, nor the people in it. It takes work and effort to make friends.
Yes, I agree, it's not the place, nor the people in it. It takes work and effort to make friends.
I actually wore my toque today
Not good to be wearing that mid april...
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I talk to everyone -- I engage -- and I wasn't about to change.
Really, I mean that I seek them out to include them more than I do someone who is more gregarious and will have an easier time of it, left to their own devices.
