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R&T is a grocery store rag. I don't consider it proof. You said that your vehicle is better than vehicles unless you spend 2x as much and that IMO simply isn't true. Yes I am talking about the Z06 and yes I have ridden in one. I don't fault the Z06 for what it is, but it isn't a destroyer of other cars in this price range or anywhere up to 2x this range.
I am responding to this comparison to other vehicles in this price range which I have ridden in as well and there simply isn't any comparison between the two. I've also seen the manufacturing operation of this vehicle and other than the space frame and drive train, it's sent down the same line as the regular versions of this vehicle with the same level of competence and quality of manufacturing.
I got a new 2007 Z06 for 61k. Show me anything for that price that is comparable.
Certainly there are comparables for more money than that and many are certainly more nimble around a track. GTR springs to mind but good luck getting one in the states for anywhere near sticker the last I heard.
I just think your depiction of it as a straight-line muscle car fly's in the face of every single review I've ever read....and pasting it as unsuited for daily driving is the OPPOSITE of everything I've ever read about it as well. (and personally experienced)
You seem to have some strong biases towards certain car types and opinions based upon riding in a few cars and not having driven them. These thoughts just seem to be at odds with everything I've read or experienced except for the interior comments which are spot on.
So, tell me what you can buy for 61k? Obviously the Porsche is better all-around (interior etc.) but thats another 75k.
I have to ask, how would a guy who grew up with muscle cars recognize unintended acceleration in a Prius?
I mean, as opposed to a slight tail wind suddenly springing up?
In all seriousness, I have no use for drive by wire (or fly by wire for that matter) it seems to be a complicated answer to a very simple question.
How it can be better, overall, compared to a cable to pull the throttle (or Diesel injector pump) in the loud direction, and a spring to return it when the loose nut behind the steering wheel gets off the loud pedal?
You need to look at the reson why race cars have had it for decades. Also might look at the problems with struck throttles in cable systems.Its liike thinking trains are a safer mode of travel tehn lokign at the real stats for train wrecks/deaths when it was a major means of moving people.
Indeed. While this car will go fast, it's no match in the handling department against most these cars you mention, the interior is basically junk in comparison, and the ride is annoying at best for day to day driving. It's one thing to build a fast car, its quite another to build a fast car that you can actually do more with than burn tires and accelerate in a straight line.
Now, I know you are smarter than that. The old C5 g would pull over 1g on the skidpad and the new C6Z is even better (look at the records set at the N-ring). The interior is not "junk", it's just plain compared to many of the higher-priced imports. Everyone already understands this. It's not like I'm thinking about what kind of leather stitching is used on the seats when I'm flying around the track at 130mph..
So yes, the Z is fast, but it's also a good looking reliable car that handles great. So if you're so down on the Z, what do you have that is so much better?
So yes, the Z is fast, but it's also a good looking reliable car that handles great. So if you're so down on the Z, what do you have that is so much better?
I said this car is what it is and not down on it for this. It serves a certain segment of the market, but it isn't the end all in sports cars and it certainly isn't comparable to vehicles costing 2x as much. As I said in my original post about this, it is what it is.
In regards to the interior, it is junk for what one should find in an interior of a $60K+ vehicle. GM only has so much money to spend on this thing when they produce it, and it's apparent that most of the money is going to weld together the space frame on a unique line, and of course the drive train. The rest of the vehicle is bolted on as an afterthought. GM can build good vehicles, but this is often where they mess up and fall short. For the demographic they are targeting with this car however, the ones that are only going to care about a few performance stats, it doesn't matter, so this is why they do it.
I said this car is what it is and not down on it for this. It serves a certain segment of the market, but it isn't the end all in sports cars and it certainly isn't comparable to vehicles costing 2x as much. As I said in my original post about this, it is what it is.
In regards to the interior, it is junk for what one should find in an interior of a $60K+ vehicle. GM only has so much money to spend on this thing when they produce it, and it's apparent that most of the money is going to weld together the space frame on a unique line, and of course the drive train. The rest of the vehicle is bolted on as an afterthought. GM can build good vehicles, but this is often where they mess up and fall short. For the demographic they are targeting with this car however, the ones that are only going to care about a few performance stats, it doesn't matter, so this is why they do it.
You are bailing and dodging.
"a few performance stats" my butt. Here are yet two more sources where it had faster track times than a 9-11. The second link review is spot on...low end interior for the class but the thing drives like a dream and is a huge bargain for the dollar.
You have anything you want to use to refute this "only goes well in a straight line" car? The first linked article even mentions how people with old preconceptions would be surprised.
The wheels could be falling off and you would still buy a Toyota product over a GM.
I've owned GMs and they were seriously poorly built crap. My parents drove GMs in the 70s and 80s and they'd barely make it 4 years until they were paid off! My last car was a Nissan -9 years and nothing but routine maintenance. Now I have a Prius that's two years old and not a single problem. Not to mention, the intierior is much higher quality than you find on GMs. I've driven GM rentals in the past couple years and couldn't wait to get back to my Prius!
I've owned GMs and they were seriously poorly built crap. My parents drove GMs in the 70s and 80s and they'd barely make it 4 years until they were paid off! My last car was a Nissan -9 years and nothing but routine maintenance. Now I have a Prius that's two years old and not a single problem. Not to mention, the intierior is much higher quality than you find on GMs. I've driven GM rentals in the past couple years and couldn't wait to get back to my Prius!
You are correct in a way. There was a day when Toyota quality was leaps and bounds ahead of GM. But the gap between American OEMs and Japanese OEMs is closing quickly.
Many GMs are bulletproof as well. My '03 Z06 has had literally no issues in 7 years. With all of the hype over bad GM quality, I keep waiting for something to go wrong, but it doesn't. It's been my daily driver and has only needed routine maintenance.
You should think about trading in your Prius for a Ford/GM. Don't you know that hybrids are the leading cause of smug?
I've owned GMs and they were seriously poorly built crap. My parents drove GMs in the 70s and 80s and they'd barely make it 4 years until they were paid off! My last car was a Nissan -9 years and nothing but routine maintenance. Now I have a Prius that's two years old and not a single problem. Not to mention, the intierior is much higher quality than you find on GMs. I've driven GM rentals in the past couple years and couldn't wait to get back to my Prius!
The 70s and 80s were over 20 years ago. Things change bud...GM and Ford build some impressive vehicles today from both a quality and fuel efficiency standpoint. If all you have to go by are cars from 9 years or more ago, you have a very outdated frame of reference.
My 1990 Lumina had 220,000 miles when I sold it. The exhaust system lasted for 13 years before it needed replacing, and the only two major repairs we had the entire time with it were a fuel pump and a water pump. Parts were cheap as well, and it never had trouble starting in below zero weather. The engine and 4-speed auto were still solid when I sold it.
As for the Prius interior, I have been in one and thought it was cheaper than even my old '90 Lumina. The dash had hard, poorly grained plastic everywhere.
The 70s and 80s were over 20 years ago. Things change bud...GM and Ford build some impressive vehicles today from both a quality and fuel efficiency standpoint. If all you have to go by are cars from 9 years or more ago, you have a very outdated frame of reference.
My 1990 Lumina had 220,000 miles when I sold it. The exhaust system lasted for 13 years before it needed replacing, and the only two major repairs we had the entire time with it were a fuel pump and a water pump. Parts were cheap as well, and it never had trouble starting in below zero weather. The engine and 4-speed auto were still solid when I sold it.
As for the Prius interior, I have been in one and thought it was cheaper than even my old '90 Lumina. The dash had hard, poorly grained plastic everywhere.
+1
I always find it ironic when Prius owners complain about Corvette interiors. Compared to the Prius, my American made 'Vette is a Bentely inside.
I always find it ironic when Prius owners complain about Corvette interiors. Compared to the Prius, my American made 'Vette is a Bentely inside.
It's not just the Prius either. Most new Toyotas since 2007 or so have cheap interiors with acres of clicky plastic on the dash and doors. The thing is, the assembly is tight enough so the plastic doesn't rattle, but the actual quality is somewhere between Rubbermaid and Playskool.
I have driven some newer Ford and GM vehicles such as a 2007 Edge and a 2008 Saturn Aura, and while the graining wasn't the greatest, the plastic on both had a slightly spongy feel that was superior to the stuff in the Prius, Camry, and Corolla I have been in. Even the Lexus ES350 has a cheap a** interior. I haven't been in the latest Fords from 2009 and 2010, but supposedly the interior materials are top notch.
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