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From Wikipedia:It doesn't seem credible that an average driver would not know to shift into neutral, even if he weren't wholly familiar with the push button ignition. I ran into a similar situation (not floor mat-related, but pedal to the metal-type engine revs without the accelerator being depressed) in a domestic make several years ago. I shifted into neutral, coasted to a stop and turned the engine off. After a restart, the problem went away. I fixed the problem for good by replacing some fuel system sensors.
ECT is an acronym used by Toyota since the 80s. ECT means the transmission is electronically controlled for shift points. Most, if not all cars built today, have some sort of electronic handshake going on at all times between the engine and automatic transmission. This is also something that has been going on for many years. It doesn't have any relationship to the engagement of the transmission.
Also the Wikipedia reference is for the Lexus ES, and the ECT reference for the ES250, which was one of the first Lexus models introduced in the United States in the early 90s. That car definitely had a cable actuated transmission, although it was electronically controlled.
I had a 94 4runner, was driving into town one day slowing down because the speedlimit went from 45 to 35. I was cruising along let off the gad and eased into town. There's about a two mile stretch before you reach your first stop light. All of a sudden my gas pedal stuck, I'm speeding up scared to death, I decide to shift it into neutral and get ready to turn the key so it doesn't over rev. I did so and I pulled over. I let her sit for a little bit, didn't do that for a good two weeks then it didn't again. Did the same neutral turn off and I was ok. I haven't owned a toyota since, that left a real bad taste in my mouth.
My prayers go out to that family, what a crock of ****. A freakn floormat? What in the sam hell? I don't mean to get mouthy but this is a family that was killed due to the fact that you can't shut the car down.
Josh, its your floormat. You may have a worn out throttle cable. NHTSA said no issues with accel pedals. But Toyota did modify the pedal, add anchors for floormats. Of course, non of this applied to your old rig. It was for the fly by wire systems.
That family that was killed was jammed because of floormats. Wrong mats, in upside down and the car has a "smart start" so they didnt know you need to punch the button and hold it for 3 seconds. That has been changed to also allow 3 repeat tries and ti will shut down as smart start doesnt deploy a key like a std rig. The family using this loaner car was unfamiliar with the system.
Also all Toyota brakes are engineered to bring the vehicle to a dead stop under full power at 80MPH. So in other words, the braking system can overcome the engine. But if you keep applying brakes to just slow it down, they can overheat.
All cars are now designed to cut engine power of the engine computer sees throttle and brake at the same time at speeds of 35 MPH or greater.
ECT is an acronym used by Toyota since the 80s. ECT means the transmission is electronically controlled for shift points. Most, if not all cars built today, have some sort of electronic handshake going on at all times between the engine and automatic transmission. This is also something that has been going on for many years. It doesn't have any relationship to the engagement of the transmission.
Also the Wikipedia reference is for the Lexus ES, and the ECT reference for the ES250, which was one of the first Lexus models introduced in the United States in the early 90s. That car definitely had a cable actuated transmission, although it was electronically controlled.
ECT is electronically controlled transmission. Its all electrically operated. There is 2 cables, shifter cable for manual valve, ie puts you into Drive, Reverse etc. Also one more throttle cable. All the throttle cable does is increase line pressure for more holding power on the transmissions clutch and brakes because of being under extra power from more throttle. Its linear, ie more throttle, more line pressure/holding power to prevent the clutches and brakes from slipping under load. Thats all it does.
The Lexus ES means economy sedan and was just a spiffed up version of the Camry. In that case, the 250 meant the 2.5 liter which was an early V6.
LS luxury sedan, SC sport coupe, LX luxury x country etc.
What a horrifying way to die. Sounds like something out of a Final Destination movie. Glad ill never be able to afford a fancy car, seems the luxury cars always explode on impact, like Ryan Dunns Porsche.
You guys are replying to a 3 year old thread that's about a topic that's been beat to beyond death on here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by toyota_mdt_tech
Also all Toyota brakes are engineered to bring the vehicle to a dead stop under full power at 80MPH. So in other words, the braking system can overcome the engine. But if you keep applying brakes to just slow it down, they can overheat.
Not that I want to open a can of worms, but this is "technically" not 100% accurate. All brakes regardless of brand can bring a car to a stop even under WOT, but that isn't the issue. It's not the heating of the brakes when you repeatedly hit them that makes the car unable to stop, it's the loss of vaccuum assist.
When the engine is at WOT, it builds no vaccuum, but the brake assist holds enough for one, maybe two applications of the pedal before it loses the vac assist. If you hit the brakes one time and hold them firm, the car will stop. If you let go and the car lurches forward again at WOT, you maybe have one more press to get it stopped.
After that, you don't have any vaccuum assist any more and when you press on the pedal, you simply don't have enough strength to make the brakes do anything but drag the pads on the rotors and at that point they are just heating up and disintegrating.
What happens in "run away" situations is that people realize something is wrong and hit the brakes. The car starts slowing down, but the person releases the brakes, thinking they are back under control. The car takes off again and at that point they most likely don't have enough vac assist left to get it stopped, so they start stabbing at a very hard brake pedal and all they are doing is dragging the pads on the rotors and making them overheat.
This is what happened to the trooper in CA. He said he was hitting the brakes and nothing was happening and witnesses saw the brakes on fire. He most likely missed his one chance to get the car stopped.
Quote:
so they didnt know you need to punch the button and hold it for 3 seconds. That has been changed to also allow 3 repeat tries and ti will shut down as smart start doesnt deploy a key like a std rig.
This is another industry standard practice that Toyota did not adopt until after the accident. The "panic shut off" where the car will turn off if repeatedly pressed was a feature used on virtually all other keyless start systems, that Toyota chose not to incorporate until after the incident.
Quote:
All cars are now designed to cut engine power of the engine computer sees throttle and brake at the same time at speeds of 35 MPH or greater.
This last part is true 'now', but wasn't true then. Toyota's did not have this feature until the whole debacle started despite it being a rather common feature industrywide. Part of the recall Toyota did was adding this feature to the existing cars and building it into all future models. Had the car the trooper was driving had this feature, the accident wouldn't have happened. If he had been in say an Audi of the same vintage, he would be alive today.
One last thing, before this opens up the debate again. Toyota's electronics were cleared, the issue was related to the floormat and the way the floormat could impact the accelerator do to the pedal design. Toyota did adapt the various safety features outlined above that were already common place on most vehicles with the same systems, so there was some 'deficit' of engineering there.
What Toyota was found guilty of and fined for was the fact that they purposefully hid internal data dating back to 2004/5 that pinpointed a potential issue with the floormats getting entangled with the accelerators. Toyota engineers reported the problem years before this accident and Toyota chose to ignore it versus issueing a recall or changing their designs. The issue was severe enough that they should have notified NHTSA per federal regulations of the problem, but instead they buried it. That is what Toyota was found guilty of.
What a horrifying way to die. Sounds like something out of a Final Destination movie. Glad ill never be able to afford a fancy car, seems the luxury cars always explode on impact, like Ryan Dunns Porsche.
cars don't explode on impact and neither did Dunns 930.. It came apart when the drunk idiot hit a guardrail at north of 130 mph
My neighbor is a retired engineer and taught engineering at Syracuse University. He purchased a 2010 Toyota Highlander fully loaded limited edition. Anyway, his wife who hasn't had an accident in over 30 years drove the car to the grocery store, turned into the parking lot and she said the car just took off on it's own with the gas on the floor. She hit a light pole with it. Ten thousand dollars damage on the car.
Toyota sent some dude from Chicago, the guy wiggled the gas pedal and said it had nothing to do with the accident.
My neighbors wife was not injured seriously, no witnesses and no other victims.
Neighbor traded the repaired Toyota in on a Subaru.
You guys are replying to a 3 year old thread that's about a topic that's been beat to beyond death on here...
Not that I want to open a can of worms, but this is "technically" not 100% accurate. All brakes regardless of brand can bring a car to a stop even under WOT, but that isn't the issue. It's not the heating of the brakes when you repeatedly hit them that makes the car unable to stop, it's the loss of vaccuum assist.
When the engine is at WOT, it builds no vaccuum, but the brake assist holds enough for one, maybe two applications of the pedal before it loses the vac assist. If you hit the brakes one time and hold them firm, the car will stop. If you let go and the car lurches forward again at WOT, you maybe have one more press to get it stopped.
The car probably didnt have the vacuum operated power assist. It used electric, this is also part of the traction control/stability control, so this "Lexus" I know for certain didnt use vacuum for assist. The electric system runs a motor which builds and stores pressure in an accumulator. He would of had assist all the time.
The operator was braking, releasing, braking, trying to ride it out. He overheated the brakes.
Quote:
This is what happened to the trooper in CA. He said he was hitting the brakes and nothing was happening and witnesses saw the brakes on fire. He most likely missed his one chance to get the car stopped.
Neutral always works, this car had a conventional shifter which can toggle between drive and neutral without even pressing an interlock button. RPM would be limited ot protect the engine. He could of gotten it under control, but saving an anegine would not of been on my mind.
This is another industry standard practice that Toyota did not adopt until after the accident. The "panic shut off" where the car will turn off if repeatedly pressed was a feature used on virtually all other keyless start systems, that Toyota chose not to incorporate until after the incident.
Toyota was one of the first to use this system, others incoporated it.
Quote:
This last part is true 'now', but wasn't true then. Toyota's did not have this feature until the whole debacle started despite it being a rather common feature industrywide. Part of the recall Toyota did was adding this feature to the existing cars and building it into all future models. Had the car the trooper was driving had this feature, the accident wouldn't have happened. If he had been in say an Audi of the same vintage, he would be alive today.
One last thing, before this opens up the debate again. Toyota's electronics were cleared, the issue was related to the floormat and the way the floormat could impact the accelerator do to the pedal design. Toyota did adapt the various safety features outlined above that were already common place on most vehicles with the same systems, so there was some 'deficit' of engineering there.
What Toyota was found guilty of and fined for was the fact that they purposefully hid internal data dating back to 2004/5 that pinpointed a potential issue with the floormats getting entangled with the accelerators. Toyota engineers reported the problem years before this accident and Toyota chose to ignore it versus issueing a recall or changing their designs. The issue was severe enough that they should have notified NHTSA per federal regulations of the problem, but instead they buried it. That is what Toyota was found guilty of.
Nice reply, good post I might add.
But for the record, floormats can get balled up under any accelerator. The floor mats in question in the Lexus was from a Sequoia, and flipped upside down (I dont k now what people do that, see it all the time in customers cars) and thus, the factory anchors were no longer operational.
Anyway NJ Goat, great reply, good info and very factual too. Not a rabid emotional response
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