In Europe: do you prefer visiting ethnically and culturally diverse cities? (Rome, old)

[charlygal]

Originally Posted by recently laid off

Last year I traveled to Europe and spent time in London England, Dublin Ireland and Edinboro Scotland.

The people in each of these cities could not have been more different. In London, I saw few actual Brits. I heard countless languages spoken on the streets. There were lots of people from Asia and Africa. Nearly everyone who worked in restaurants, hotels, and retail were immigrants. Seeing all these people from all over the world was exciting. But I wonder what happened to the old fashioned Brits?

Next, I went to Edinburgh Scotland. Outside of tourists, nearly everyone I encountered in the shops, restaurants, and hotels were from Scotland. I felt like I was in Scotland. But it was so different than London without the cultural and ethnic diversity.

Finally, I went to Dublin and traveled all around Ireland. In Ireland there were some immigrants, but very few. Like Scotland, nearly everyone I came in contact with had an Irish accent and looks so Irish. It seemed very traditional. I felt like I was experiencing an old fashioned Irish Culture. But without the immigrants, the city seemed less exciting.

When you travel in Europe do you like going to places with a common culture or a multicultural city like London or Paris?

You're making the assumption that the "true" English and French are white people. If someone is born and raised in a country, then they are that nationality. Ethnicities may vary, but those people are still English and French. Actual tourists are excluded of course.

So, don't use coded language like "common culture" when you really are asking about visiting places to see only white people.

There are a ton of Black and brown "old fashioned Brits." Read some UK history.

[recently laid off]

I think many of the posters misunderstand my question. Let me give another example: A few years ago I visited both Japan and South Korea as a tourist. Both of these countries are very homogenous. NEARLY everyone shares a common culture and looks very much alike. This causes a unique cultural experience for the tourist. If Toyko would have opened up the country to immigrants and was like Sydney which is now becoming mostly foreign-born it would be completely different from a tourist experience.

In Europe, a tourist has a completely different experience in cities and countries where most people's families have historically lived there for hundreds of generations, vs a place where a good percent of people are immigrants from all over the world.

[Nonesuch]

So, don't use coded language like "common culture" when you really are asking about visiting places to see only white people.

Then there's the Americans who say "Lacks diversity" as coded language for "too many white people".

I don't travel to Europe for ethnic and cultural diversity, I travel to Europe to see historical European culture and artifacts, so I'm cool with mostly homogeneous cities. When I visited Stockholm, I was looking for traditional Swedish cuisine, not the newly imported "diverse" street vendors selling the same items you find in NYC, etc.

Originally Posted by SunGrins

I have not been there but Iceland is supposedly very homogeneous..

Iceland may be racially low-diversity, but has interesting European imports and fusion. some of the best "tapas" I ever had I found in Reykjavik, using traditional Icelandic ingredients.

[Hefe]

Same here, I don't consider ethnic/cultural diversity at all in factoring my trips. In a sense it's meaningless unless applied to remote rural/island locations because of the diversity that an outsider doesn't notice. Your choice of Dublin as "traditional" rather than diverse is a good example.

I've been visiting Ireland regularly since the 1950's & on my most recent visits am struck by the diversity & international mix on the Dublin streets since the EU & economic ascension there. Asians, Africans, all sorts of Europeans inc Gypsies are on the streets in increasingly larger numbers & there is at least a generation of immigrants now firmly landed there, mostly from E Europe, largely Polish. One can stop by RC churches & see the listings for Polish language masses, the Poles & Romanians & others would pass unnoticed on streets to the unwary.

About 8-9 years ago I took a coach Cork-Dublin & virtually every town, large or small, we stopped in had not only the requisite church & pubs but also a Thai restaurant, not operated by Irish, it was very striking. My most recent visit to the Aran Islands included a BnB/restaurant run by an Egyptian & his German partner.

While I have an interest in seeing some places before they "change", Myanmar & Laos jump to mind, they are in fact diverse what with the settled Chinese, hill-tribes, persecuted Rohingya, et al., with their various languages & religious traditions that would go under my radar.

[otowi]

Originally Posted by recently laid off

The people in each of these cities could not have been more different. In London, I saw few actual Brits. I heard countless languages spoken on the streets. There were lots of people from Asia and Africa. Nearly everyone who worked in restaurants, hotels, and retail were immigrants. Seeing all these people from all over the world was exciting. But I wonder what happened to the old fashioned Brits?

I suspect London has rarely in its history been made up of primarily whoever the "locals" were perceived as being at the time - from the Roman era to the present I think it has always been multicultural - or, rather, the broader definition of what it means to be 'British'. Brown people are Brits too, Romans were Brits, etc.

[charlygal]

I just recently watched a program with British scientist Giles Yeo. Born and raised. He's every bit British.

[PriscillaVanilla]

Originally Posted by Nonesuch

I don't travel to Europe for ethnic and cultural diversity, I travel to Europe to see historical European culture and artifacts, so I'm cool with mostly homogeneous cities. When I visited Stockholm, I was looking for traditional Swedish cuisine, not the newly imported "diverse" street vendors selling the same items you find in NYC, etc..

Same here. And I hated seeing all the street vendors selling cheap junk made in China. Stuff I could buy anywhere.

[dazzleman]

Originally Posted by recently laid off

Last year I traveled to Europe and spent time in London England, Dublin Ireland and Edinboro Scotland.

The people in each of these cities could not have been more different. In London, I saw few actual Brits. I heard countless languages spoken on the streets. There were lots of people from Asia and Africa. Nearly everyone who worked in restaurants, hotels, and retail were immigrants. Seeing all these people from all over the world was exciting. But I wonder what happened to the old fashioned Brits?

Next, I went to Edinburgh Scotland. Outside of tourists, nearly everyone I encountered in the shops, restaurants, and hotels were from Scotland. I felt like I was in Scotland. But it was so different than London without the cultural and ethnic diversity.

Finally, I went to Dublin and traveled all around Ireland. In Ireland there were some immigrants, but very few. Like Scotland, nearly everyone I came in contact with had an Irish accent and looks so Irish. It seemed very traditional. I felt like I was experiencing an old fashioned Irish Culture. But without the immigrants, the city seemed less exciting.

When you travel in Europe do you like going to places with a common culture or a multicultural city like London or Paris?

It doesn't really matter that much to me. I love London and hope to love Paris when I visit in about 16 months. But I also loved Edinburgh and Dublin. I think the whole diversity thing is oversold and it is certainly not a must for me, though I don't mind it if the city is nice overall.

[dazzleman]

Originally Posted by Nonesuch

Then there's the Americans who say "Lacks diversity" as coded language for "too many white people".

I don't travel to Europe for ethnic and cultural diversity, I travel to Europe to see historical European culture and artifacts, so I'm cool with mostly homogeneous cities. When I visited Stockholm, I was looking for traditional Swedish cuisine, not the newly imported "diverse" street vendors selling the same items you find in NYC, etc.



Iceland may be racially low-diversity, but has interesting European imports and fusion. some of the best "tapas" I ever had I found in Reykjavik, using traditional Icelandic ingredients.

I couldn't agree more. Whenever somebody says a place "lacks diversity," I am either indifferent or it makes it more appealing. I am certainly not traveling to Europe (or anyplace else) in search of the holy grail of diversity. Where I live isn't particularly diverse either and that's fine with me too.

[Brave New World]

London has around 20 million overseas visitors a year, compared to NYC's 13.5 million.

So Central London is a mixture of tourists from across the world, on top of this there is a large multinational student population and London which was once the mother city of an Empire has always attracted people who wished to live and work there, in the same way people are attracted to Paris and NYC.

Edinburgh is a much smaller city, indeed it's not even the largest city in Scotland, which is Glasgow.

London has a population of around 9 million and a commuter zone of around 15 million and London has over 3 million daily commuters, by contrast Edinburgh has a population of around 500,000 and a metro of around 1.3 million, which is comparable to an English city such as Leeds rather than a major global city.