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I wasn't arguing it. I was asking for clarification. I've never seen it written off. There was clearly snow by that window.
How can I carry an image to these threads? There are photos out there - look for Lou Smit Evidence Man for one set made public by the news media. You can see the walks were clear.
No prints in the snow - - even after the Whites, the Fernies, the minister and the police had been in and out.
How can I carry an image to these threads? There are photos out there - look for Lou Smit Evidence Man for one set made public by the news media. You can see the walks were clear.
No prints in the snow - - even after the Whites, the Fernies, the minister and the police had been in and out.
Did the White's, the Fernies, the minister and the police exit the house through the basement window? That is the area in question. Not the sidewalk.
From the Wolf Suit decision - by Federal Judge Julie Carnes:
During the investigation, the Boulder Police Department and Boulder County District Attorney's Office consulted at least six handwriting experts.(SMF ¶ 191; PSMF ¶ 191.) All of these experts consulted the original Ransom Note and original handwriting exemplars from Mrs. Ramsey.(SMF ¶ 205; PSMF ¶ 205.) Four of these experts were hired by the police and two were hired by defendants.(SMF ¶ 191; PSMF ¶ 191.) All six experts agreed that Mr. Ramsey could be eliminated as the author of the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 194; PSMF ¶ 194.) None of the six consulted experts identified Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 195; PSMF ¶ 195.) Rather, the experts' consensus was that she "probably did not" write the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 196; PSMF ¶196.)14 On a scale of one to five, with five being elimination as the author of the Ransom Note, the experts placed Mrs. Ramsey at a 4.5 or a 4.0.(SMF ¶ 203; PSMF ¶ 203.)
The experts [253 F.Supp.2d 1335] described the chance of Mrs. Ramsey being the author of the Ransom Note as "very low." (SMF ¶ 204; PSMF ¶ 204.) The two experts hired by defendants both assert that this evidence strongly suggests that Mrs. Ramsey did not write the Note.(SMF ¶ 254.)
Plaintiff, however, asserts that his retained experts believe Mrs. Ramsey to be the author of the Ransom Note. Indeed, Gideon Epstein and Cina Wong, the handwriting experts proffered by plaintiff, opine that they are "100 percent certain" Mrs. Ramsey wrote the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 256; PSMF ¶ 256; PSDMF ¶¶ 1-2.) In contrast to the experts relied upon by defendants and by the Boulder Police Department, however, neither of these experts have ever seen or examined the original Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 256; PSMF ¶ 256.) In fact, Mr. Epstein and Ms. Wong do not know what "generation" copy of the Ransom Note they examined.(SMF ¶ 257; PSMF ¶ 257.) Ms. Wong received her copy of the Ransom Note and certain writings alleged to be historical writings of Mrs. Ramsey from the tabloid, The National Enquirer.(SMF ¶ 258; PSMF ¶ 258.) Although it is widely considered "very important" to consult the original versions of writings when engaging in handwriting analysis, plaintiff asserts it was impossible for his experts to consult such materials because defendants failed to provide him with original exemplars.15 (PSMF ¶¶ 259-260.)¶ 42.)
jameson's comment
Let me repeat : None of the six consulted experts identified Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note. Rather, the experts' consensus was that she "probably did not" write the Ransom Note. On a scale of one to five, with five being elimination as the author of the Ransom Note, the experts placed Mrs. Ramsey at a 4.5 or a 4.0. The experts described the chance of Mrs. Ramsey being the author of the Ransom Note as "very low."
Hardly what the BORG reports in the Ramesy discussion forums. But these are documented facts coing out of a federal lawsuit. Not to be ignored.
Back to Carnes: remember, the plaintiff is Chris Wolf
Other experts believe the Ransom Note may have been authored by other people. In addition to Mrs. Ramsey, there were other individuals "under suspicion" who had their handwriting analyzed and who were not eliminated as the possible author of the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 205; PSMF ¶ 205.) For example, forensic document examiner Lloyd Cunningham cannot eliminate plaintiff as the author of the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 279; PSMF ¶ 279.) Plaintiffs exgirlfriend has also testified that she was "struck by how the handwriting in the note resembled [plaintiffs] own handwriting" and believes that he is the note's author.(J. Brungardt Aff.¶ 43.) Further, to the extent that the use of a single editing mark might suggest to plaintiffs experts that Mrs. Ramsey was the author, given her bachelor's degree in journalism, one should also note that plaintiff, himself, has a Masters' degree in journalism.(Id.¶ 13.)
jameson's comment - so Chris Wolf could not be cleared by handwriting. Interesting. He was cleared by the DNA, but not the handwriting. Just interesting. Remember, he has no alibi for that night. His girl friend believes he did it.
From the Wolf Suit decision - by Federal Judge Julie Carnes:
During the investigation, the Boulder Police Department and Boulder County District Attorney's Office consulted at least six handwriting experts.(SMF ¶ 191; PSMF ¶ 191.) All of these experts consulted the original Ransom Note and original handwriting exemplars from Mrs. Ramsey.(SMF ¶ 205; PSMF ¶ 205.) Four of these experts were hired by the police and two were hired by defendants.(SMF ¶ 191; PSMF ¶ 191.) All six experts agreed that Mr. Ramsey could be eliminated as the author of the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 194; PSMF ¶ 194.) None of the six consulted experts identified Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 195; PSMF ¶ 195.) Rather, the experts' consensus was that she "probably did not" write the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 196; PSMF ¶196.)14 On a scale of one to five, with five being elimination as the author of the Ransom Note, the experts placed Mrs. Ramsey at a 4.5 or a 4.0.(SMF ¶ 203; PSMF ¶ 203.)
The experts [253 F.Supp.2d 1335] described the chance of Mrs. Ramsey being the author of the Ransom Note as "very low." (SMF ¶ 204; PSMF ¶ 204.) The two experts hired by defendants both assert that this evidence strongly suggests that Mrs. Ramsey did not write the Note.(SMF ¶ 254.)
Plaintiff, however, asserts that his retained experts believe Mrs. Ramsey to be the author of the Ransom Note. Indeed, Gideon Epstein and Cina Wong, the handwriting experts proffered by plaintiff, opine that they are "100 percent certain" Mrs. Ramsey wrote the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 256; PSMF ¶ 256; PSDMF ¶¶ 1-2.) In contrast to the experts relied upon by defendants and by the Boulder Police Department, however, neither of these experts have ever seen or examined the original Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 256; PSMF ¶ 256.) In fact, Mr. Epstein and Ms. Wong do not know what "generation" copy of the Ransom Note they examined.(SMF ¶ 257; PSMF ¶ 257.) Ms. Wong received her copy of the Ransom Note and certain writings alleged to be historical writings of Mrs. Ramsey from the tabloid, The National Enquirer.(SMF ¶ 258; PSMF ¶ 258.) Although it is widely considered "very important" to consult the original versions of writings when engaging in handwriting analysis, plaintiff asserts it was impossible for his experts to consult such materials because defendants failed to provide him with original exemplars.15 (PSMF ¶¶ 259-260.)¶ 42.)
jameson's comment
Let me repeat : None of the six consulted experts identified Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note. Rather, the experts' consensus was that she "probably did not" write the Ransom Note. On a scale of one to five, with five being elimination as the author of the Ransom Note, the experts placed Mrs. Ramsey at a 4.5 or a 4.0. The experts described the chance of Mrs. Ramsey being the author of the Ransom Note as "very low."
Hardly what the BORG reports in the Ramesy discussion forums. But these are documented facts coing out of a federal lawsuit. Not to be ignored.
Back to Carnes: remember, the plaintiff is Chris Wolf
Other experts believe the Ransom Note may have been authored by other people. In addition to Mrs. Ramsey, there were other individuals "under suspicion" who had their handwriting analyzed and who were not eliminated as the possible author of the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 205; PSMF ¶ 205.) For example, forensic document examiner Lloyd Cunningham cannot eliminate plaintiff as the author of the Ransom Note.(SMF ¶ 279; PSMF ¶ 279.) Plaintiffs exgirlfriend has also testified that she was "struck by how the handwriting in the note resembled [plaintiffs] own handwriting" and believes that he is the note's author.(J. Brungardt Aff.¶ 43.) Further, to the extent that the use of a single editing mark might suggest to plaintiffs experts that Mrs. Ramsey was the author, given her bachelor's degree in journalism, one should also note that plaintiff, himself, has a Masters' degree in journalism.(Id.¶ 13.)
jameson's comment - so Chris Wolf could not be cleared by handwriting. Interesting. He was cleared by the DNA, but not the handwriting. Just interesting. Remember, he has no alibi for that night. His girl friend believes he did it.
How can I carry an image to these threads? There are photos out there - look for Lou Smit Evidence Man for one set made public by the news media. You can see the walks were clear.
No prints in the snow - - even after the Whites, the Fernies, the minister and the police had been in and out.
I couldn't find the photo but did find this:
"No footprints" report
The photos displayed, entitled "The Sidewalk and Surrounding Area," [purporting to demonstrate that police reports of "no footprints" were misleadeing] are an excellent example of the way in which Smit tosses all objectivity aside, bending the evidence to the advantage of his "clients." The police arrived at 6AM, well before sunrise. The photos shown were obviously taken in clear sunlight. The police report emphasized the presence of frost, not just snow, on the ground. If any frost had survived after sunrise, it would probably not show up in such photos anyhow. Thus the photos are completely irrelevant. Yet Smit, referring only to snow and NOT frost, presents them as evidence of police incompetence and/or bias. Smit himself was not at the scene at that time and had only photographs to work by. Yet he questions the observations of an experienced policeman at the scene that morning.
- - - - -
That's from this blog which has some other interesting photos and observations.
Spending time with the Ramsey's, you've lost case objectivity. Lou Smit did the same. Comparative to reading tabloids, believing every word.
If you can't remember the FBI were at the Ramseys home the morning after their 911 call, I'm not sure other accounts accuracy.
Thanks for participating in forum discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameson
Cornered, Cyril Wecht once told me - stuttering and stammering - that he had to admit there was no physical evidence of prior sexual assault that would have left a bruise or scar or even an injury. BUT, he said, there are other kinds of abuse. He might have touched her through her clothing or had oral sex with her. THAT couldn't be disproven, he said with a smirk in his voice.
I would've had my recorder going. Your saying highly regarded Cyril Wecht, told you something other than reports and interviews? You're so intimating he stuttered? Had smirk in his voice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameson
Patsy did pick it up, then dropped it and screamed for John. John also touched it, he moved it to the other end of the hall and laid it on the floor. It was there when John Fernie went to the house and saw it through the back door he did not enter through. Interesting, he said in HIS deposition that he could read some of it. I was surprised at that but that's what he said. I guess because we are looking at a smaller page here.
Are you suggesting Patsy lied to investigators?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameson
From what I was told, prints are left because of oils on our hands. Patsy had just washed and John ran from the shower, and hence, no oils and no fingerprints.
Once again, the Ramsey's never said they touched the ransom letters, with or without washed hands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameson
[118 could have been anything, a date, a time, the killer's girlfriend's weight.....
You couldn't seriously believe this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameson
Not true. Please let me know why you believe that. Fact is, Burke never owned such boots. The boots that were turned in belonged to Michael Helgoth and were turned in by John Kenady. They were too large for Burke who was a scrawny 9 year old, not a man.
Are you aware that many people online have "called you out", and in short, have said that you are no one important and visit the "jonbenet forums" just to have the chance to show off (or whatever)?
Perhaps you could share your credentials, or provide a link to them?
(If you have already posted them here, can you please tell us the post number? Thanks.)
Did the White's, the Fernies, the minister and the police exit the house through the basement window? That is the area in question. Not the sidewalk.
Nope, but the story was there was no way it was an intruder because the snow covering the ground around the house was undisturbed. The fact is, there was little snow around the house and no one had to disturb it to get in - - even if they went in through the broken window.
Besides, the photos were taken after the body was found - that means after 1 pm. If the killer went in before dawn, any tracks left on a dusting of snow could have been gone with the sun. Just saying...
Are you aware that many people online have "called you out", and in short, have said that you are no one important and are just visiting "jonbenet forums" because you just want the chance to show off (or whatever)?
You aren't impressed...are you? I think I'm done here.
So what if CW's ex-girlfriend said she thinks he did it? Without hard proof, this is meaningless. Maybe they had a bad break-up & she was angry with him as a result. Women have unjustly gotten guys in trouble when they're upset with them.
As far as I'm concerned, her accusations mean nothing.
Last edited by The Big Lebowski Dude; 06-08-2015 at 01:34 PM..
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