Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Michael Doberson, MD. On the question of whether the autopsy findings indicated chronic abuse, "Arapahoe County Coroner Dr. Michael Doberson says you would need more information before you could come to any conclusion. That was part of Smith's job. But then she was abruptly pulled off the investigation and told police were handling everything." [Editor's Note: **Holly Smith** was head of Boulder Country Sexual Abuse Team.]
"You would need more information..." But then she was pulled off the job because the BPD were handling everything. More information might have included marks on other parts of her body showing that she had been held down against her will or even JBR confiding in someone as to what was happening. The autopsy didn't prove that there was no prior sexual abuse.
AND, even though I haven't gone back and found the actual statement yet, just plain common sense would tell us that JR wasn't getting sex from his wife-she had ovarian cancer. And plain thinking would remind us that there was a beautiful sexy little girl right in the same house. And...sexual abuse within families is not all that rare:
In the United States in the 1990s, it was estimated that 100,000 to one million cases of incest occur annually, but only about 10 percent of them are reported ( Johnson 1983).
And how about the DA Alex Hunter who was politically powerful and protects the Ramseys? If you have the money and influence you can get away with murder. Even Fleet White, when he came to his senses after what he witnessed, suspected the Ramseys, if not right away, then pretty soon after.
JR wrote a letter to the newspaper criticizing the police but NOT the DA's office, lol. Wonder why. Because the his friend/s in the DA's office were protecting him.
Fleet White wrote a letter asking for Alex Hunter to be removed from the investigation. He wanted the truth to come out. He could see what was happening. FW seems to be a good man and a former friend who wanted justice for Jon Benet.
White, a friend of the Ramsey family who was with John Ramsey when he discovered his daughter's body, asked Gov. Roy Romer to remove Hunter from the investigation.
Romer denied White's request, but the oil magnate went public. In a letter published Friday in the Daily Camera, White said Hunter's actions have "created a strong appearance of impropriety, professional incompetence and a lack of objectivity."
I remember everyone always mentioning this, but the thing that seems odd to me about it being a random outsider is why (how) could they have the time to write a ransom note that long (which based on the wording was not original) and then it was all for not since they ended up killing her anyway? They wasted 30+ minutes of time. What murder would hang around in a house that long after committing a murder? What was the motive? And if he/she were that bold as to hang around all that time after committing the murder, why would they only target JBR and not anyone else in the family? The whole thing just seems so odd.
What makes you so sure the note was written after she was killed?
I found this comment on a blog site, from 2017:
Anonymous
September 2, 2017 at 11:00 am
"Garry, I would advise the police to pull pharmacy records for the medication family was taking. And track down family doctor in state. The information provided in the interview is not correct. See WHY Jon Benet was seen 27 times. This was never done. I cannot give you any more information than that due to HIPAA Laws. Thank you. If this is done, this case can be solved. Also note everyone was drinking champagne that night. No one has bothered to do this. They asked, but they did not confirm." WHO REALLY KILLED JONBENET RAMSEY? - Dying Words
Since this is an active case, perhaps the police could investigate this.
It's implying that she was seen for urinary tract infections resulting from chronic sexual abuse and had to be treated with antibiotics. I think this was brought up in the beginning. It is a tendency in many child abuse case but it's inconclusive unless you have direct evidence which it's used to corroborate. There are a number of facts in this case that tie in if there was a smoking gun.
I think the original intent was to move the body out of the house. That would've made this case a slam dunk as the transfer of artifact between the house and the drop off location would be at both locations and the two parents.
What makes you so sure the note was written after she was killed?
I am not so sure about that. I'm just saying, if they are going to kidnap a child and write a ransom note, why would they then kill her? By them killing her it negates their ability to collect a ransom, doesn't it?
It's implying that she was seen for urinary tract infections resulting from chronic sexual abuse and had to be treated with antibiotics. I think this was brought up in the beginning. It is a tendency in many child abuse case but it's inconclusive unless you have direct evidence which it's used to corroborate. There are a number of facts in this case that tie in if there was a smoking gun.
I think the original intent was to move the body out of the house. That would've made this case a slam dunk as the transfer of artifact between the house and the drop off location would be at both locations and the two parents.
I agree that she was probably chronically sexually abused by her father. Other than that I don't know who did what. just watched a video of JR and PR soon after the event and PR seems to genuinely be upset and doesn't seem to know what happened. That's the time when she said to keep your babies close.
Yet she does seem to have written the ransom note because when she's shown a photo album of her family with her writing, she more or less denies that it's her writing. She knows she's being set up as a match for the ransom note.
In that same video, John doesn't show much emotion and it started making me think he knew all about it. Just by his body language and lack of feeling, it seems like he either did it all or in part.
But whoever killed her, how were they intending to get the body out of the house?
I am not so sure about that. I'm just saying, if they are going to kidnap a child and write a ransom note, why would they then kill her? By them killing her it negates their ability to collect a ransom, doesn't it?
No, it doesn't. If the body is removed from the house the ransom is just as likely to be paid as otherwise.
this is supposed to be a discussion, not just an automatic refuting of what anyone posts.
If we’re not allowed to post information--or links to information--that refute someone’s comments, it’s definitely not a discussion. A discussion is a back and forth conversation. If you don’t want anyone posting links to evidence that rebuts what you write, you can certainly ignore it. The impression I’m getting is that you don’t want me to reply to your posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
www.stewwebb.com contains a different wording for what Dr. Kirschner is alleged to have said: "Dr. Robert Kirschner of the University of Chicago's pathology department went even further...
I can’t seem to access any information from that website; all I see is that it’s a radio network, and I can’t find out who Dr. Kirschner is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
"In mid September a team of PEDIATRIC EXPERTS from all over the country concluded that:
We gathered affidavits stating in clear language that there were injuries 'consistent with prior trauma and sexual abuse' 'There was chronic abuse'. . .'Past violation of the vagina'. . .'Evidence of both acute and injury and chronic sexual abuse.' In other words, the doctors were saying it had happened before. One expert summed it up well when he said the injuries were not consistent with sexual assault, but with a child who was being physically abused." (Thomas 2000a:253). JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia / Evidence of Sexual Assault
The JBR Case encyclopedia is a Wiki site that hasn't been updated in years, and was one on which anyone used to be able to post. It looks as if it they quoted Steve Thomas's book. Thomas was sued for libel and defamation by the Ramseys, and settled out of court. He was a BPD narcotics officer, recently moved to homicide around the time of JBR’s murder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
There are more doctors who examined the evidence other than the one who did the autopsy.
There were three doctors who physically examined her body, one when she was alive and two right after she was murdered. Dr. Beuf, her pediatrician; Dr. Meyer, the coroner; and Dr. Sirotnak, who Dr. Meyer called in after he did the autopsy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
Many more concluded that there had been prior ongoing sexual abuse before that night.
The "pediatric experts" that examined reports and slides for the Grand Jury were the only others involved in this area. Of course they concluded that; that was the reason they were brought in by the BPD. (The GJ heard only the prosecution’s side.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
Anyway, the person who performed the autopsy--how do we know he wasn't intimidated somehow by the family? Bribery or just because he was in awe of the wealth and fame of the Ramseys.
Bribery or in awe of their wealth? Don't you think that evidence of that would have been uncovered?
Michael Doberson, MD. On the question of whether the autopsy findings indicated chronic abuse, "Arapahoe County Coroner Dr. Michael Doberson says you would need more information before you could come to any conclusion.
Interesting. Michael Doberson is the doctor who believed that it was likely that a stun gun was used on JBR.
And both Dr. Meyer and Dr. Sirotnak realized that physical evidence might be interpreted either way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
... just plain common sense would tell us that JR wasn't getting sex from his wife-she had ovarian cancer. And plain thinking would remind us that there was a beautiful sexy little girl right in the same house.
Plain common sense? I can’t agree with anything about these statements.
If a stun gun had to be used on a little child, it seems to rule out a male perpetrator. The kid is only 4 and a half feet tall and weighs about 70 pounds. There goes the whole male sexual assault theory and the intruder theory.
There is so much staging. It becomes obvious. The ransom note is just too wishy-washy to be taken seriously. Maybe they'll do this. If you do this or that, we might do that. I think it's obvious that they didn't want to get caught with lengthy practice notes littering the house and they just added on to what they had.
I think the family pediatrician may have refused to corroborate the opinion of the visits.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
