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A possible explanation for the wounds around her neck and the scratches on her neck, which were probably caused by her own fingernails:
After hitting JBR on the head with what I believe was the flashlight found in the kitchen, that person realized that he had to get her out of the dining room. He can't carry her, so he decides to drag her and goes down to the basement and gets some kind of rope.
The wounds around her neck may have come from the rope that was possibly put around her neck to enable that person to drag her to the basement. Dragging her full body weight could cause those types of wounds.
When JBR was hit on the head, she was probably knocked out for a while but not dead. When her air supply was being cut off, she would naturally claw at the device cutting off her air supply. I think that explains the scratches on her neck from her own fingernails.
Just about the only thing left that I cannot even come up with any explanation is the DNA under her fingernails. Male DNA that would have come from the person who she struggled with. Unless that DNA was already there, maybe from the Christmas party or even from days before. I don't know much about DNA, I'll admit. It's not too interesting to me, but it sure gets interesting when it proves or disproves a case.
Just about the only thing left that I cannot even come up with any explanation is the DNA under her fingernails. Male DNA that would have come from the person who she struggled with. Unless that DNA was already there, maybe from the Christmas party or even from days before. I don't know much about DNA, I'll admit. It's not too interesting to me, but it sure gets interesting when it proves or disproves a case.
That's one of those I Don't Know things for me. I don't know much about dna either, but I have learned some things about touch dna from this case.
I do think it's possible that she got the dna under her fingernails at the Christmas party. I don't know how rough the kids were playing or anything like that. It's also possible that the non-sterile clippers that the ME used to clip her fingernails had traces of unknown male dna on them too.
The petechial hemorrhages on the upper inside of her eyelids may have been a result of the head trauma from the blow with what I believe was the mysteriously wiped clean of all fingerprints flashlight.
I don't care enough to read all the ins and outs of this soap-opera.
IMO - the parents of that little girl were sick twisted individuals for dressing up a little girl to look like a prostitute, a pedophile's dream come true.
Sick people. And that includes the mothers trying to re-live their lives and using their child as a prop.
I hope that whole nonsense of children's beauty pagents no longer exists.
No, as has been said already, he thought she was dead. It's not a matter of killing her or accidentally killing her because he doesn't know he is killing her. To him, she was already dead.
He or he and PR would have been frantic as to what to do--get rid of the body? They probably wanted to but ruled it out because of fear of getting caught. So they're freaking out for what to do. Some evidence said that JBR had been previously molested and maybe it was by JR, although probably she was molested by BR too. So naturally that sort of thing would spring to mind.
We can't know all that was in their heads but when you also add in her being a child sex symbol, it would make sense to cover it up as sexual assault. It's hard to imagine, but who knows what they would have done in their desperation.
I'm (once again) extremely disturbed by your portrayal of JB as a "sex symbol" or being "sexy."
That's the sort of thing a pedophile would think. Her being a child, I see nothing whatsoever "sexy" about her or other pageant children (though I find the pageants disagreeable and distasteful anyway). I only see a child dressed up to look like a grown up. Any adult who finds that "sexy" needs to get help, IMO.
CA beat me to it but the notion that the parents would be capable of covering up the death to protect their murderous son requires no less deviance, and perhaps more, than doing it themselves, and there's nothing to suggest that in their prior or their post-1996 behaviors. Doesn't rule them out 100% but there's nothing to suggest it either. And I have a very tough time seeing how that would unfold.
"Oh Patsy, Honey, Burke just killed Jon Benet, could you write up a ransom note real quick and mention my bonus amount to draw attention back to us while I tie her up, duct tape her mouth, shove this paintbrush up her vagina and strangle her still-warm dead body with a garrote? I'm going to throw out the duct tape but lets wipe the flashlight and leave the notepad right where it always is."
There is disagreement about prior sexual assault. If we knew that to be true it would cast them in a much different light, but IMO we really don't know that. You pooh-pooh the statements by her pediatrician to the contrary but he seems to be in the best position to make that determination.
A possible explanation for the wounds around her neck and the scratches on her neck, which were probably caused by her own fingernails:
After hitting JBR on the head with what I believe was the flashlight found in the kitchen, that person realized that he had to get her out of the dining room. He can't carry her, so he decides to drag her and goes down to the basement and gets some kind of rope.
The wounds around her neck may have come from the rope that was possibly put around her neck to enable that person to drag her to the basement. Dragging her full body weight could cause those types of wounds.
If the person--I assume you mean Burke, since he would've been the only one in the family who might not have been able to carry her--had used the cord around her neck to drag her to the basement, the deeply furrowed ligature marks would have not have been in the two places they were found, as described in the autopsy report.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyLane2
When JBR was hit on the head, she was probably knocked out for a while but not dead. When her air supply was being cut off, she would naturally claw at the device cutting off her air supply. I think that explains the scratches on her neck from her own fingernails.
The tightening and loosening of the cord, which is what the molester used to cut off her air supply with the garrote, is what caused her to claw at the cord. The head blow killed her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyLane2
I do think it's possible that she got the dna under her fingernails at the Christmas party. I don't know how rough the kids were playing or anything like that.
The BPD had everyone at the Christmas party tested. Later, her playmates were tested. No DNA consistency, although there was some with DS-007-2, from the bloodstain in her underwear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyLane2
It's also possible that the non-sterile clippers that the ME used to clip her fingernails had traces of unknown male dna on them too.
The nail clippers were sterile before the coroner started the autopsy. He apparently did not sterilize them between scraping each nail. (I wonder if the non-sterile clippers story came from Linda Arndt, who was there watching.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyLane2
The petechial hemorrhages on the upper inside of her eyelids may have been a result of the head trauma from the blow with what I believe was the mysteriously wiped clean of all fingerprints flashlight.
There is some speculation that there were two flashlights. One disappeared but was later found by the CBI.
I'm (once again) extremely disturbed by your portrayal of JB as a "sex symbol" or being "sexy."
That's the sort of thing a pedophile would think. Her being a child, I see nothing whatsoever "sexy" about her or other pageant children (though I find the pageants disagreeable and distasteful anyway). I only see a child dressed up to look like a grown up. Any adult who finds that "sexy" needs to get help, IMO.
...
I don't think that your insinuation that someone is a pedophile and "needs to get help" for thinking that JBR's costumes were too provocative is fair. A lot of people thought that PR had progressed to going over the top with the costumes and made them more provocative as time went on. In my estimation, those people are not pedophiles but just being honest and disagreeing about how PR dressed her for those later pageants.
If you look at her early costumes, she looks like a sweet, wholesome little girl. The later costumes were a different story.
The tightening and loosening of the cord, which is what the molester used to cut off her air supply with the garrote, is what caused her to claw at the cord. The head blow killed her.
...
Just saw the 20/20 special The List, which shows current efforts to solve the case, which has resulted in a list of 20 potential suspects. It seems the volunteers have been plugging along for years trying to find an exact DNA match, and has cleared 9 people, still leaving a list of 20 suspects.
What wasn't mentioned and has me puzzled is that there seems to be two current DNA techniques which aren't mentioned and not being tried. One is the use of DNA to create a likely image of the killer based on genetic characteristics. This has been successful in the past to predict color of hair, eyes, complexion, facial structure, etc. Wouldn't this be of some help in narrowing down the list?
The second, but probably more important new technique has been shown on the ABC TV show The Genetic Detective, which follows the work of genetic genealogist CeCe Moore who uses public DNA databases to build a family tree of persons related to the suspect. She has been successful in closing some long term cold cases in a matter of weeks, identifying current people who are likely a match to the DNA crime scene sample which was never matched.
...there seems to be two current DNA techniques which aren't mentioned and not being tried. One is the use of DNA to create a likely image of the killer based on genetic characteristics. This has been successful in the past to predict color of hair, eyes, complexion, etc. Wouldn't this be of some help in narrowing down the list?
I agree that it would. It's my understanding that the cost of this is over $3,500, and possibly that's out of the BPD's budget, especially for a crime which they don't consider that important anymore. The only other thing I can think of is that the BPD doesn't want this case solved because they already know who did it (IMO, the son/grandson/nephew/etc of a member of LE).
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez
The second, but probably more important has been showed on the TV show The Genetic Detective, which follows the work of genetic genealogist CeCe Moore who uses public DNA databases to build a family tree of persons related to the suspect. She has been successful in closing some long term cold cases in a matter of weeks, identifying current people who are likely a match to the DNA crime scene sample which was never matched.
I think that's how they found the Golden State Killer. And the murder by a former LAPD officer of her ex-boyfriend's wife was solved that way, years after the crime. https://www.city-data.com/forum/true...-evidence.html
Last edited by CA4Now; 01-17-2021 at 03:33 PM..
Reason: found the Stephanie Lazarus thread
I agree that it would. It's my understanding that the cost of this is over $3,500, and possibly that's out of the BPD's budget, especially for a crime which they don't consider that important anymore. The only other thing I can think of is that the BPD doesn't want this case solved because they already know who did it (IMO, the son/grandson/nephew/etc of a member of LE).
I think that's how they found the Golden State Killer. And the murder by a former LAPD officer of her ex-boyfriend's wife was solved that way, years after the crime. https://www.city-data.com/forum/true...-evidence.html
According to the 20/20 program The List, the case is apparently being pursued by the two grand daughters of a deceased ex-homicide detective who worked for years in retirement to compile the list, along with a few retired detective volunteers. There doesn't seem to be any official investigation at this time. However the volunteers wouldn't have to pay for it because 20/20 and ABC certainly have the budget for it. They must have earned enough advertiser revenue from the 20/20 and Genetic Detective episodes to pay for it easily, and it would be a blockbuster new episode as well if they solved the case.
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