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I like that, too, but there's one thing that bothers me. It seems like she's really pretty condescending towards the "girls." I mean, she was one of them. She's moved up and that's nice, but I don't know why she has to take on the attitude that she's better than the "girls" who are just secretaries.
I know that as a woman who has been in the work force over forty years, I have had only one female boss I could stand. (My current boss is a woman and I really, really like her.) Most of them seemed to think they had something to prove and that the way to do it was to try to act like a chauvinistic man. That just does not go over with me, and I get the feeling that Peggy would be like that if given the right opportunity. She's extremely talented. She doesn't need to treat the "girls" like they're beneath her. Am I the only one who has noticed this?
Well I don't think she has been condescending. She is trying to make it in a man's world and a man's game and is constantly struggling against stereotypes. The fact is, she is above them. She may have been one of them, but now she ranks above them. That hierarchy was very strong in those days and still exists to a great degree today.
Well I don't think she has been condescending. She is trying to make it in a man's world and a man's game and is constantly struggling against stereotypes. The fact is, she is above them. She may have been one of them, but now she ranks above them. That hierarchy was very strong in those days and still exists to a great degree today.
Hmmm. It's a good thing you're not my boss. Actually, I have made it in an extremely male-dominated field (IT), starting in the late 1970s, and I didn't need to treat anybody like they were beneath me to get where I am.
My take on Peggy is a bit different. I think I too have had one female boss I could work with. As a female, I personally don't like to work w/other females, mainly because I'm not into all that gossip and office play pettiness. When I worked in defense contracting I was one of 5 women on a site of 50 something employees. Currently I am the only woman in my workspace. I like this b/c I find men generally are less office chatty and more goal focused and oriented. They are fixers and doers. That's what I go to work for, and I just work better in that environment. I see Peggy the same way. Even when she was just starting out, she never quite fit in w/the other girls. Remember the lipstick experiment? All the girls fawning and playing w/the lipstick and how Peggy stood out b/c she WASN'T being "a girl?"
I don't think Peggy is condescending on purpose. She just comes off that way b/c she's wired differently. Joan wields her power differently from Peggy and can sometimes come off as condenscending. She is strong and clearly runs the office and is in charge of "the girls" but she has a certain charm about her that Peggy doesn't possess. She has sex appeal and knows when to use it. In my mind, she is just as strong a personality as Peggy. She just has different talents and strengths.
I don't think Peggy is condescending on purpose. She just comes off that way b/c she's wired differently.
Yeah, maybe you're right. I'd kind of like to see her be able to enjoy the company of "the girls," even as she's working shoulder-to-shoulder with the men. Maybe it's just not supposed to happen, though.
Hmmm. It's a good thing you're not my boss. Actually, I have made it in an extremely male-dominated field (IT), starting in the late 1970s, and I didn't need to treat anybody like they were beneath me to get where I am.
If you watched the last episode, you'll see exactly why Peggy is snippy with the other women in the office ... it's because all these women (Joan included) think the only reason Peggy got where is was by sleeping with Don. Peggy has every reason to be snooty with the other women in the office.
Yeah, maybe you're right. I'd kind of like to see her be able to enjoy the company of "the girls," even as she's working shoulder-to-shoulder with the men. Maybe it's just not supposed to happen, though.
Really interesting points. I think my take on it is not to put it so much in the context of the era but, rather, the context of SCDP.
I, also, do not like it when Peggy is condescending towards the other women. However, those other women are not victims; they sometimes are not so nice to Peggy (c.f. the comment that Trudy made to her and the way that Joan treated her when she first began to work at the office).
So, I think for Peggy it's a defense mechanism so that she a) doesn't let the fact that she's 'not like other women' get to her, including their sometimes bitchy comments; b) doesn't give in to being like them. Remember, if Peggy thought and acted like the other women, she would be them--still looking for a husband from the secretarial pool. Her condescension plays a dual purpose of distinguishing her and defending herself and her choice to be a an unstereotypical woman to follow a different path. I see this often in people who choose to be themselves--or as others put it, "different"; they have to defend themselves every step of the way, and, in order to do so, they really have to take an antagonistic approach towards others who might pressure them to be 'like everyone else' in order to survive being the person they want to be.
Granted, in a perfect world, Peggy would be a 'live-and-let-live' type, and wouldn't have to take a defensive position. But she is struggling with her path, which is why she acts the way that she does. If she were a hippy living in the village, we probably wouldn't see so much defensiveness. But she's not; she's a hippy in an ad agency, and a female one to boot.
If you watched the last episode, you'll see exactly why Peggy is snippy with the other women in the office ... it's because all these women (Joan included) think the only reason Peggy got where is was by sleeping with Don. Peggy has every reason to be snooty with the other women in the office.
Yeah, maybe you're right. I'd kind of like to see her be able to enjoy the company of "the girls," even as she's working shoulder-to-shoulder with the men. Maybe it's just not supposed to happen, though.
Don't forget, Peggy is working in an office full of women who are working merely to catch a man to marry and take care of them. Peggy just doesn't fit that mold and I love it that she is coming to terms with that.
Don't forget, Peggy is working in an office full of women who are working merely to catch a man to marry and take care of them. Peggy just doesn't fit that mold and I love it that she is coming to terms with that.
Kudos domer. I forgot to mention that. Peggy really has nothing in common with the office women, so there is no shared common bond, no connection point. She has more in common with the pot-smoking lesbian who she accompanied to that party than she does w/ the office women. And that's what is so fascinating about her. She works, lives, and breathes in this very conventional, straight-laced, sort of alpha male, alcohol-ridden environment where there is a definate chain of command and structure, but as far as Peggy is concerned, her life outside of work is anything but that.
Well, Joan certainly gave Peggy her comeuppance in episode 8.
I don't think Peggy *meant* to sound condescending in the elevator when she asked Joan if she'd heard that she'd fired Joey the Frat-boy (an empowering moment for Peggy). Regardless, Joan was neither grateful nor impressed because as far as she's concerned, she had already handled it and Peggy's move will make both of them look bad. Poor Peggy. It's not easy being a trailblazer.
I was unsurprised that Fay and Don had a date, but I thought it was pretty cool that Don just took her home--and that part did surprise me.
Interesting to hear Don's narrative. Voice-overs bother a lot of people, but I always seem to like them. He speaks of hating to write anything long, which reminds me of his phrase "small but significant" from a couple episodes ago.
I like that he swims laps (I do the same thing 5 mornings a week)and I appreciated his description of weightlessness and being wrung out afterward--that is exactly why I like swimming, too.
Was that Joey in the next lane in the swimming scene towards the end?
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Actually, I have made it in an extremely male-dominated field (IT), starting in the late 1970s, and I didn't need to treat anybody like they were beneath me to get where I am.
