The Leftovers (70's, show, episode, doctor)

[loves2read]

1--some of interps of Kevins visits to the other side/world/whatever forget the fact that Kevin does not live there-/
In fact there is no "there" there
Kevin knows nothing in that world he does not know in the real world

2--there are really 3 Kevins
The assassin Kevin
The most powerful man in the world/president Kevin
The Kevin who is real and conflicted
Even after that last (final?) trip to the other side that Kevin is not omniscient but still questioning

3--IMO the statement that in that last trip he is the most powerful man in the world just tells Kevin that he has the power to change his life, to control his destiny through his choices IF HE WANTS TO badly enough
This power/option/aspect makes us all the most powerful person in the our worlds if we accept the responsibility for change and the knowledge that we can

[biscuitmom]

Originally Posted by loves2read

Why in the last conversation did the two Kevins agree they screwed up w/Nora??
They had another relationship screwed up too--Laurie...
And if they screwed up one w Nora why wouldnt the "new"/reborn Kevin try to make it right?
Was Kevin's sacrifice in going to the other side and launching the war so "they never had to go back" enough to save the world??? Or was it just an ephemeral dream tied to only his problems??

Kevin and Laurie found closure in their last conversation together.
Presumably in the finale he'll attempt to make things right with Nora, altho the flashforward doesn't bode well for that.

The afterlife was more than just an ephemeral dream but was still a construct of his own mind and psychology. Since the premiere we've known that Kevin has a highly active intuitive inner life with tendencies toward hallucinations - verging on what some would call mental illness, probably inherited from Senior. The recurring international assassin was his guilty side that chose self punishment. The "strongest man in the world" that finally appeared represented his realization and acceptance that he had the power to choose healing, to face and annihilate that destructive inner world.

I would love for the writers to have given us a glimpse of Kevin's mother.
Lindelof evidently likes writing about father/son dynamics; Jack and Christian Shephard's relationship was imo what made Lost work so well emotionally. I saw a lot of Jack/Christian in the Kevin Jr/Sr.

edit to add: you added your last post while I was typing this.

[jencam]

Originally Posted by biscuitmom

Kevin and Laurie found closure in their last conversation together.
Presumably in the finale he'll attempt to make things right with Nora, altho the flashforward doesn't bode well for that.

The afterlife was more than just an ephemeral dream but was still a construct of his own mind and psychology. Since the premiere we've known that Kevin has a highly active intuitive inner life with tendencies toward hallucinations - verging on what some would call mental illness, probably inherited from Senior. The recurring international assassin was his guilty side that chose self punishment. The "strongest man in the world" that finally appeared represented his realization and acceptance that he had the power to choose healing, to face and annihilate that destructive inner world.

I would love for the writers to have given us a glimpse of Kevin's mother.
Lindelof evidently likes writing about father/son dynamics; Jack and Christian Shephard's relationship was imo what made Lost work so well emotionally. I saw a lot of Jack/Christian in the Kevin Jr/Sr.

edit to add: you added your last post while I was typing this.

Has to be more than just his own mind. I mean he literally dies and comes back to life ......

[loves2read]

Originally Posted by jencam

Has to be more than just his own mind. I mean he literally dies and comes back to life ......

Just my .02 of rationalizing---
Remember there is no "LITERAL" about any of this because it is a scripted/acted/recorded performance....
The creators have license to portray a world that bears 100% accuracy to our world while at the same time bending/breaking every rule of physics via the freedom of "art"...
The more realism you credit this show with, then the more you have bought into the quality of its design...
It is just one-dimensional virtual reality...two-dimensional, I guess, since some aspect of time is also a physical presence within the show and our own watching of it...

1--We have no idea how long these "sessions" last and since there is no footage of Kevin in the water while he supposedly has "died" and gone to the other side there is no way to tell how long this time is...
We KNOW time has passed because of the passing events, the location change, but there is no way to know how long Kevin was actually under the water...
We all have had dreams that seemed to involved much longer in dream time than the actual time encompassed, so the fact that Kevin seems to live hours in the dream doesn't mean that in reality he is actually "dead" for hours...
There is no way to know if his body is moved magically from the water to where ever he wakes up...
since there is always a "cut away" or transition and KEVIN is never shown in the real world the entire time he is in dreamland...
It seems logical that in the real world, when there is a partner involved, Kevin could be moved out of the water almost as soon as he is perceived to be "dead"...after all, that crossing over is the point of the exercise--
Not to KEEP Kevin underwater the entire time...So he could be taken out of the water after very short immersion...

2--there is no medical professional involved in this process so there is no way to tell if Kevin really dies...
There have been cases of basically "suspended animation"...where people have survived being underwater for long periods of time w/o drowning...most of the time in very cold water I think...
I didn't Google any examples--but I have read about them and know they have happened...
To me--a logical explanation of Kevin's ability is that he does just that--induces a suspended animation that lasts for a much shorter period than we think while his mind roams the various corridors of the other side...

[loves2read]

@buiscuitmom--
What Kevin does in the "other world" IS just ephemeral--even if meaningful...
He brings nothing back but memories or personal insight...
He suffers no physical damage despite anything that happens to him while there
No one he meets there can share that experience outside the dream
He meets dead people in that environment because he controls all that occurs in his imagination, yet he knows nothing IN that world that is not part of his knowledge from the real world...like the kids' shoes...
So it is a microcosm of his living reality and the total of his experience, realized and unrealized...

And yes, it would be very insightful to know more about Kevin's mom and his relationship with her as well as his dad and mom's relationship with each other...

[biscuitmom]

Originally Posted by loves2read

@buiscuitmom--
What Kevin does in the "other world" IS just ephemeral--even if meaningful...
He brings nothing back but memories or personal insight...
He suffers no physical damage despite anything that happens to him while there
No one he meets there can share that experience outside the dream
He meets dead people in that environment because he controls all that occurs in his imagination, yet he knows nothing IN that world that is not part of his knowledge from the real world...like the kids' shoes...
So it is a microcosm of his living reality and the total of his experience, realized and unrealized...

Well said, I agree.

I do recall Kevin having few glimpses of things he could not have known: for example, Mary Jamison receiving a "It's a boy!" balloon, but nothing that couldn't be attributed to his being in a heightened highly intuitive state.

[hitman619]

It was good seeing Patty again. I love her character

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by hitman619

It was good seeing Patty again. I love her character

Ann Dowd the actress who plays Patty is also in Handmaid's Tale on Hulu she's really a good actress.

[jencam]

He definitely dies. He was buried for three days the first time! He bled out from a gunshot the second time. And was drowned to death twice last week.

[loves2read]

Originally Posted by jencam

He definitely dies. He was buried for three days the first time! He bled out from a gunshot the second time. And was drowned to death twice last week.

I have seen every episode in S1 and S2--some more than once
I don't remember either event
And re the drownings--
Child Revived Almost 2 Hours After "Drowning" - But How? | IFLScience

The Doctor's World - Ingenuity and a 'Miraculous' Revival - NYTimes.com

And there are other similar events
It is just too hard to move from Google to CD on my iPad
I lose what I type here when I go to Google to search...