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This is for CA. CA is not NJ. They don't have simple, severe, and gross misconduct in CA. Misconduct all by itself disqualifies a claimant until the disqualification is purged by working, earning the right amount of money, and being let go for a nondisqualifying reason again. In a tight job market, it can effectively mean that you never get UI either because you don't get a job, or if you do, you don't get laid off again.
I see your point Rabrrita but I think as Chyvan mentioned earlier it's clearly my signature on the documents so I'm not going to deny that because it's petty. Though what I'm fighting at the UI appeal is if it counts as misconduct. My employer policy says that anyone who submits falsified time records intentional or not is grounds for termination. No wiggle room or any area of gray. Since they submitted all my manual time logs from 2014 and 2013 and in the statement by my manager stating that their were no other inaccuracies found. I feel like it strengthens my case as it being a isolated incident and just human error which is not misconduct.
The issue I have is if the OP admitted to the manual time card entries as something they did and knew was not accurate.
The way I interpreted the case is that the claimant never punched in. Manual entries were made on a sheet to correct the time keeping system. Therefore, to me, the only way to say that the manual entries were incorrect is for the person that saw him come in late to testify, "I saw the claimant come to work at 8:07. I then reported this to my supervisor." At that point, the manual entries can be proven incorrect. In the alternate, the employer can play a video with a time and date stamp showing the claimant coming into work at 8:07, and again proving that the manual entries were incorrect. The last way would be for the claimant to admit to it. However, I don't think he admitted to it while applying or with anything in writing.
I learned from my experience that what a claimant tells a deputy can be distorted into pure fiction. My deputy has that I was interviewed, and I never got a call. The deputy cherry picked statements and pieced them together to make a denial by using my answer to "why were your wages or hours reduced" and turned that into "claimant quit because . . . ."
I also suspect the employer interview wasn't conducted either because the time listed was concurrent with when mine was being conducted. You'd have thought it would have been staggered by a minimum of 10 minutes for believeability.
Also, it says that the employer said I quit for the same reason as was listed for what supposedly came out of my mouth. That was a lie because the employer only said, "voluntary quit. See attached." and then only attached my letter of resignation that said, "losing my health insurance, dental, and the last of my company-sponsored benefits on Dec 31 is just too substantial a reduction in my salary package to bear." How that got construed to be a quit over a reduction in hours alone, I'll never know.
However, based on my experience, the tattletale will not be at the hearing, and the employer won't bring the video. Also, since the claimant did produce pictures of the file, I'm betting the employer is going with the "we won this way the first time, we'll do the same thing again and have the same result," and that doesn't work with the ALJs. They want more than just hearsay alone.
Though what I'm fighting at the UI appeal is if it counts as misconduct. My employer policy says that anyone who submits falsified time records intentional or not is grounds for termination. No wiggle room or any area of gray. Since they submitted all my manual time logs from 2014 and 2013 and in the statement by my manager stating that their were no other inaccuracies found. I feel like it strengthens my case as it being a isolated incident and just human error which is not misconduct.
No, what you fight is that it isn't incorrect at all. Many a claimant has lost using the "it's not misconduct approach." You make the employer prove what they say. This is no different than a shoplifting trial. If the store video gets lost in police evidence, and the person doesn't admit to it, they can be guilty as sin, but they're going to get a walk because that's just the way the system works.
However, I don't think he admitted to it while applying or with anything in writing.
My concern is the OP did admit (very weak admission but an admission) that the time on the written time log is not the true time they reported to work. So long as the rep only confines the evidence to something the OP is in aposition to confirm or deny, its the exception to hearsay. So if they had a statement from a supervisor saying the OP admitted to that supervisor that it was a false time entry, the rep can ask the OP to confirm that they did make that statement. NOW, if the OP says no I did not make that statement, the rep is up sheets creek because they can't use it anymore. The same goes for every bit of evidence where the only person present who can testify to the accuracy of the statement is the OP.
But, from my readings, the OP may be one who has a need to "justify" their actions and "mitigate" their actions, all which is an admission. The key is for the OP to deny anything written that they have not signed as being truthful. Maybe I'm getting the wrong vibe from the OP but I see too much concern about the justification and severity.
well when I was reading over the CA rules regarding misconduct related to time card I saw,
Like false statements about coworkers and the employer, falsifications concerning work, work record, including the time card, constitute misconduct if the following two conditions are met, in accordance with Title 22, Section 1256-34(e) cited above.
The false statements are willfully made.
The false statements substantially injure or tend to injure the employer's interests or are a substantial violation of the employee's obligation to the employer.
I don't think the the $10.00 i cost the company in over payment substantially "Injured" the company. Also there is no way for them to prove that I "Willfully" committed the misconduct.
I feel like unless they furnish video of me coming in and then going to write on my manual time log instantly after I arrived at work that they will have a hard time proving that I willfully did it.
If I'm understanding these rules correctly then a one time isolated mistake doesn't count as misconduct.
I guess I'm just confused on all the admission stuff. What exactly am I supposed to deny? I've signed the logs and I admitted that they were mine, but I never once admitted that the time on the written time log is not the true time that i reported to work.
Ahhh I was rereading what the Interview recorded during my investigation interview, and now I know what you guys are worried about. It looks like I admitted that I knew that the time I put on the time card was wrong because I already knew I was late. The interviewer obviously misunderstood what I said, and it makes me look bad so I know that is the first thing I know that I need to mention when I go in for the appeal. Now I understand what Chyvan meant by the less information the better...
I guess I'm just confused on all the admission stuff. What exactly am I supposed to deny? I've signed the logs and I admitted that they were mine, but I never once admitted that the time on the written time log is not the true time that i reported to work.
As the to the admission, it goes like this. Let's say you stole something, and the only one that saw you do was an 80 year old coworker. Just as she tattles on you, she keels over dead. (not the best example because dying declarations are an exception to the hearsay rules.) Ok, at this point only you and the dead witness know what you did. If you walk into you hearing and say, "sure I stole something. I stole a pack of cigarettes that were $5/pack. It was a one time occurrence. I had every intention of paying for it when my shift was over. . . . " Do you get the picture? You are resting your case on the how the ALJ interpretes things. That's risky because it was so much easier to say, "the person that says they saw me do it isn't here to testify," and then you shut up.
These ALJs are probably attorneys by training. You're in CA so I'm not positive. Just in my state you have to be licensed by the BAR or you can't even get hired to be an ALJ. They may not like it, but they are trained that people are going to get UI when the employer does a bad job presenting their case. For the system to work any other way, employers would be able to say all kinds of misconduct like things with so substance to them and everyone would get denied.
The reverse is true as well. Employees that quit may very well be quitting for the right reason, but they fail to prove it.
It's your hearing and you can do what you want, but my opinion is to use every avenue available to you, and not rely on what someone else thinks "substantially injures the employer" means.
The ALJ won't ask you if the time entries are incorrect, and if they are somehow inclined to do it, you can say, "that's why we're here today. For the employer to prove that they are incorrect," and then be silent as in, you don't have to lie about anything.
I represented myself and my employer had My Boss, Compliance Officer, and a third party rep from Equifax to represent them.
My boss was covertly trying to make me look during the entire case, and the judge was really shocked after reading over my boss's personal statement that I was fired over one event... They did not provide video evidence, and only had supporting documents like records of when I badged into the company parking lot, and I objected to get it dismissed, but Judge let it through and said he would give it it's proper weight.
When I was crossed examined by the Equifax representative he asked me three questions related to the event regarding why I would check the computer system to see if I had missed a punch if I knew I clocked in at 8AM.(I won't include my response because it includes a lot of Kaiser Jargon) I knocked that question out of the park and shut him down and I could have sworn I heard the judge giggle....
All in all I think it went really well since the Judge was really interested in seeing if I had a motive and intentionally did it, and if it caused substantial injury to the company. For my closing statement I followed Chyvan's advice and said something along the lines "If you believe that I intentionally falsified these records I think you should look closely at previous time cards that were submitted and My bosses statement that no other inaccuracies were found and that this is a isolated event. Furthermore the majority of the evidence here is here say as the person who reported me is not here to testify and I can't cross examine or question papers, and lastly I don't think a mistake that cost the company $10 is worth denying me unemployment over.
Thanks to everyone for your advice and instruction it really helped me to be confident for my case and a special thanks to Chyvan... I'll let everyone know ASAP about how it turned out.
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