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Is the normal protocol for them to try again for a 2nd interview if you don't make the first?
Not normally, but things change over time. Most that miss the call just report that they never hear another word about it. Hold the course. Your story is ugly.
So a little update. I got a call from some 310 number on Monday. They left a message and it was the EDD asking me to call them back within 3 days or they will move forward with the claim.
I know I was advised not to take the call and so I didn't. But after thinking about it, I decided if I don't call them back they will just call my employer who will tell them I violated company protocol, and determined it was a misconduct based firing. Then deny my appeal.
At best, I figured my company will just say I got fired and that's it, and I would get approved. But I thought this was a remote possibility, considering the amount of high turnover we have. I'm sure HR does it's best to not exhaust their EDD fund.
So being that most likely if I don't tell my side of the story, that the claim will be denied and I'd have to wait 2 months for the appeal, I decided to call back the EDD and tell them exactly what happened. That I didn't know emailing to myself was against company protocol, that I was given no warning, that I was only trying to do my job because our computers suck.
At best I would be approved, at worst I would be denied. I actually thought my chances of being approved are higher if I tell my side of the story to the deputy then if I didn't and just let HR try to prove my firing was based on misconduct. I felt, it was going to go to appeal anyway, so let's go and try to make a swing for the fences with a full count and see what happens.
The lady asked me the routine questions (how much I make, how long I worked, who works in HR, what happened, and did they fire me right away, did I know it was against company policy to do this). I told the truth, and she just kept saying hold on (guess she was writing it down). At one point, just put me on hold for about a minute.
After the interrogation, which honestly was not that bad although I was a little bit disturbed that the lady didn't seem to display any emotion, she told me I will get an update in 7 to 10 business days.
This didn't sound to good to me because from what I gathered in this forum, a 48 hour period is what usually is quoted as the green light to get accepted for benefit.
Before hanging up I asked the lady, do you think I will qualify for benefits. Her answer, she doesn't know she has to talk to my company. I thanked her and hung up.
So I've been checking the EDD site on a daily basis to see if anything changes. Sure enough today I see that under Claim History, for benefits ending 7/7 it says under Status, Waiting Period Served. For the week ending 7/14 it says, Paid with a current authorized amount of $XX5.00
However, nothing has come in my account yet.
So am I granted benefits now or is this just some formality? Why would the latest period be paid first and the earlier one be noted waiting period served?
By no means am I telling people here to take the call. However, I reread the rules from EDD (thanks to Chyvan for posting that) about what qualifies as a misconduct firing and I felt my case, although very messy, would not qualify. At the end of the day, I just didn't want to go through the long process of waiting for the appeal and really felt my employer basically revenge fired me in a sort of entrapment-like way and decided to talk to the EDD.
Last edited by bobdog357; 07-19-2018 at 05:07 PM..
One additional issue with speaking to the interviewer is if your former employer appeals, they know exactly what you said. Many employers have learned not to say anything at first (for the exact reason we tell claimants not to say anything) and let you speak so they know your story but never had to reveal theirs. If they don't speak to the interviewer, they can create any story at an appeals hearing as to your termination. They are not bound by what you said, they get to present their own story (kinda like a do over) as to your termination. It would be like having the defense make their case for innocence before the prosecutor has to even say what they are charged with.
Hopefully your employer just didn't care and it's over.
Wait so an employer can also appeal that I got approved? They are the ones with the money, and not needing money while unemployed like me and have paid insurance using my salary to fund the EDD fund.
But I find it hard to believe that they would just say I've been fired and that's it without trying to prove misconduct. To do this they would have to think that I would have to take the call and explain my story to the interviewer. If that's the case, they will know exactly what I will likely say. And if that happened and they didn't say anything, then I will likely get approved, which is something they don't want. They probably wouldn't think that I would not take the call and probably knew the best thing to do would be to tell it like it is from their perspective and try to get me disqualified.
That would be really crazy if my employer thought two moves in advance and believed their best chance would be to let me just talk while they keep silent, then go to appeal to try to disqualify me knowing what I already said.
If this is the case then this could be like a poker game/prisoner's dillema gone completely wrong. Wow this is just too much drama for something that we all pay for every paycheck period. If the employer overturns my approval through appeal, can my benefits be suddenly denied after a certain period? And would I owe back what I already received if my approval gets overturned?
Of course they have aright to appeal your approval. And if you win again, they still have the right to appeal that approval, and if you still win they have the right to go into state court and fight your unemployment. Had the roles been reversed, you would also have that same right; just ask Chyvan!
When EDD contacts us, the send a form. It ask us to check the appropriate box. The options are limited to Lay Off, Trade Dispute, Quit or Fired. Only Lay Off will not trigger any call. All others will trigger a form to you saying they want to talk to you. We have learned that just like claimants, if we say nothing and you are denied, so be it. But if you are approved, all we have to do is appeal. But we have the advantage that we now know what you said while you have no idea what we'll say.
Remember, to the employer this is a business decision. If they determine the unemployment tax rate increase and reserve account recalculation isn't worth it and just glad your gone. Or they or their cost containment company may decide to appeal just for the fun of it. You never know what they are going to do so that is why it's always best to never give any information they can use against you. The more a company knows about your defense, the greater their chances of winning an appeal.
My two cents--I believe if you emphasized that you never received a warning about this, you didn't know what you were doing was against company policy and you believed what you were doing would benefit your employer because you could do your job better/faster that you have a very strong chance of being approved. The UI code is the code and without a warning, what you did just wasn't misconduct as defined by the code (per what Chyvan posted). Unless your employer has proof of a warning or how what you did harmed their business in a significant way, they won't meet their burden of proof (Well, unless they somehow fabricate such proof on appeal if they decide to do that...but that's a stretch and you can cross that bridge later...)
I tried to explain the process to you. I thought I was very clear. You made false assumptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdog357
But after thinking about it, I decided if I don't call them back they will just call my employer who will tell them I violated company protocol, and determined it was a misconduct based firing. Then deny my appeal.
This wasn't an appeal. It was an initial determination. You don't know what your employer was going to say or do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdog357
tell them exactly what happened. That I didn't know emailing to myself was against company protocol, that I was given no warning, that I was only trying to do my job because our computers suck.
Now, everything you said has been documented. The EDD worker might have believed you.
At a hearing, the employer will have your admission in the deputy notes, and just needs to fill in the missing details with testimony or documents showing that all 6 elements of firing for a "rules violation" have been met.
One of the hardest things to prove is that you emailed yourself because you were told to delete them. Now, they don't have to do that. You did it for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdog357
I actually thought my chances of being approved are higher if I tell my side of the story to the deputy then if I didn't and just let HR try to prove my firing was based on misconduct. I felt, it was going to go to appeal anyway, so let's go and try to make a swing for the fences with a full count and see what happens.
You just don't get it. You have benefits now, but you're at risk. Benefits awarded by a deputy can be taken away at an appeal hearing. Benefits awarded at an appeal hearing take an act of God to be revoked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdog357
Wow this is just too much drama for something that we all pay for every paycheck period.
You don't pay this. There is no UI tax as a line item on your pay stub. The company gets hit for each week of benefits that you receive through it's reserve account. When the funds run low, they get hit with what can amount to whopping tax increases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdog357
If the employer overturns my approval through appeal, can my benefits be suddenly denied after a certain period?
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdog357
And would I owe back what I already received if my approval gets overturned?
Sort of. EDD will ask you to pay back the money. EDD will try to convince that you have to. However, it's nothing but an unsecured debt, and there's things you can try to make it be an interest-free loan or maybe not pay it back at all. Worry about it when it happens.
My two cents--I believe if you emphasized that you never received a warning about this, you didn't know what you were doing was against company policy and you believed what you were doing would benefit your employer because you could do your job better/faster that you have a very strong chance of being approved. The UI code is the code and without a warning, what you did just wasn't misconduct as defined by the code (per what Chyvan posted). Unless your employer has proof of a warning or how what you did harmed their business in a significant way, they won't meet their burden of proof (Well, unless they somehow fabricate such proof on appeal if they decide to do that...but that's a stretch and you can cross that bridge later...)
What you said... I wasn't warned and I didn't know. And yes, I seemed to have been approved for now.
They have proof in the emails I sent but that's it. No proof of any warning, because there wasn't one.
I tried to explain the process to you. I thought I was very clear. You made false assumptions.
This wasn't an appeal. It was an initial determination. You don't know what your employer was going to say or do.
Now, everything you said has been documented. The EDD worker might have believed you.
At a hearing, the employer will have your admission in the deputy notes, and just needs to fill in the missing details with testimony or documents showing that all 6 elements of firing for a "rules violation" have been met.
One of the hardest things to prove is that you emailed yourself because you were told to delete them. Now, they don't have to do that. You did it for them.
You just don't get it. You have benefits now, but you're at risk. Benefits awarded by a deputy can be taken away at an appeal hearing. Benefits awarded at an appeal hearing take an act of God to be revoked.
You don't pay this. There is no UI tax as a line item on your pay stub. The company gets hit for each week of benefits that you receive through it's reserve account. When the funds run low, they get hit with what can amount to whopping tax increases.
Yes.
Sort of. EDD will ask you to pay back the money. EDD will try to convince that you have to. However, it's nothing but an unsecured debt, and there's things you can try to make it be an interest-free loan or maybe not pay it back at all. Worry about it when it happens.
I just felt that if I didn't say anything it was going to go to appeal anyway because I would be disqualified. I mean the employer is either going to make the decision to avoid paying benefits or would decide to pay and just say I got fired without any reason. What employer would decide to grant the benefits and then try to fight in appeals rather than try to fight it from the start? Wouldn't this be more expensive? They would be paying out while the appeal is in process and paying for attorneys perhaps and employee time to attend the hearing. Most logical thing from the employer's perspective in my opinion is that they try to get me disqualified from the start with the best narrative to prove I misconducted.
The HR made me sign a letter of attestation that I confessed I sent the emails to myself and signed and dated by me on June 25th. There is no mention of any warning in that letter. If this letter of attestation was the implicit warning which they have evidence well it will not serve as a warning made before I sent out any more emails. The last of the emails I sent to myself were in the middle of June before the letter of attestation. The emails I sent to myself they can easily find in their outbox corporate server and use that as evidence. Other than that they have nothing.
See I knew they can prove I sent the emails to myself. What they can't prove is that I did this to try to harm them and that I knew about it beforehand. Because we never had any policy that specifically states no sending emails to ourselves to do work. Plus they have no proof they ever warned me because they didn't. Hence I guess I gambled that they don't have enough on me with the 6 laws of EDD, and that they would try to fight me from the start, and that if I don't say anything I will be disqualified right away and have to appeal.
Last edited by bobdog357; 07-19-2018 at 11:05 PM..
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