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Exactly, and some of those opinions are baseless and some are not. The idea that there is some paranormal or supernatural aspect to the human ability to hear voices in white noise, or find faces in random patterns (as another example) is one of the baseless ones. These things are, to use your own words, "natural in the human realm".
So opinion is not the problem. Facts are, and you have none to support any of these claims. You are more than entitled to your own opinions. You are NOT entitled to your own facts.
And some people feel they have been abducted by aliens while others things they can fly or that they are Napoleon reincarnated. The issue is not whether I believe them or not. The issue is that they (and you) give absolutely no reason other than your own baseless opinion FOR believing it.
Actually you have done no such thing. Aside from saying over and over that it is true, and making up an unverifiable anecdote that some people in your living room agreed with you... you have offered literally no arguments, evidence, data or reasons to suggest any of this is true. You just keep repeating that it is and no more. What little evidence you claim there is you make excuses for not actually presenting.
If people experience things and our current science has not a clue as to how to explain it, how can people give YOU an explanation? I don't think that denying their own experiences would be an honest or valid thing to do.
If, by some miracle, an ancestor of mine, several hundred years back, saw an airplane in the sky and started talking to people about it, he would be thought of as loony and arguments such as those you now present would be flung at him.
I think you should try to be a bit more flexible in your thinking. As it stands, you can now ridicule every future advance of science because such things cannot be proven on this day.
From the studies I have done on the spirit world,I find there are good, and bad spirits.
The bad are always trying to infiltrate the good, and sometimes they do win over a weak spirit.
One can see this in the way some people behave.
Ever notice that some seemingly normal person, for what seems no apparent reason, suddenly does something way out of character?
This is a prime example of a bad spirit trying to take over a good spirit.
Now, you speak of being fearful of what you don't quite understand.
This is human nature.
A normal reaction to things we are not familiar with.
You CAN get through this phobia though.
I remember my first experience with evp.
It was late at night, and after experimenting for four days, and getting no response, on the fifth night, I heard my first voice from beyond.
It was a woman asking for help. She kept repeating the words,"help me", "please help me".
I wasn't fearful, but a cold chill did come over me, followed by jubilation that I had succeeded doing something I never thought possible.
From that point on, I couldn't wait to set up the next recording session.
I have had some experiences with what could only be called evil spirits.
They have not harmed me physically, but tried very hard to intimidate me.
I have had them swear profoundly at times.
I remember in one session, I asked for help from someone on that side in locating someone I knew had passed on.
After asking, I played the tape back , hoping for a response, and this voice spoke in a rough tone asking, "why the f... are you looking for help, leave me alone".
When I asked again, the response was the same voice, and this time more angry.
"Get the f... out of here".
At that point I stopped for the night, and took it up two nights later with a much better result.
When I again asked for help to find my friend, the answer was, "I'm Henry", "Henry","I will help you".
In questioning Henry, he said he had died due to cancer, and had live in North Carolina.
He never did help, nor did I ever hear from him again.
One thing I never got , was a direct answer in detail, when I asked what it is like there?
When ever I would get a response, the answer was always the same, never giving any detail. The word was always "peaceful", regardless of what spirit gave the answer, as if some higher power were putting a limit on what they could say about their surroundings.
One thing I learned through my experiments above all, there was one quality they(not all, but most} were especially indicative of, and more than once it was expressed to me, that being "LOVE".
Love was perhaps the most important lesson they wanted to teach to all, and expressed that humans MUST learn to love one another in this life.
Spirits within us, guide us, and are the basis for what we are as humans.
Obviously, when we come across a human that has little to no love for anything, or any one, not even itself, you can be sure an evil spirit inhabits that body.
My advice for you would be, take one day at a time, , and when you come up against something that you don't understand, stop and think about the source of this "something", and decide how you want to deal with it.
Above all, don't be fearful just because you don't understand something.
Be prepared to confront any fears by solid positive thoughts, and actions.
You expressed that you would like to try recording but were apprehensive or fearful.
Perhaps if you had a friend, or family member join you in trial evp experimenting, it may help to ease you anxiety.
I have to tell you, there isn't much, if anything , in this world that bothers me, as it did before I got a glimpse of what is ahead for me when I leave this earth.
I don't embrace death, nor do I fear it.
I think I have a pretty good idea what lies beyond this life.
Bob.
Cal, was it not frustrating, not being able to help that woman who was crying for help?
There is that, and although they all seem to say it is peaceful, she certainly did not sound that way.
Cal, was it not frustrating, not being able to help that woman who was crying for help?
There is that, and although they all seem to say it is peaceful, she certainly did not sound that way.
After that taping, I contacted Sarah Estep, and she gave me what I felt was a plausible explanation.
She found that in her experience, some souls were in what could only be called "Limbo".
These are souls that as humans, their lives ended abruptly, (ie. accident, war, plane crash etc) and they are not exactly sure where they are.
They are somewhere between death of the human they were incarnated in,and returning to that place where most souls go once they remove themselves from a dying body.
The soul I contacted was in need of help to free it from where it now found itself.
Once I understood the mystery, I tried, with no avail to reach that soul, but never got a response again.
Bob.
After that taping, I contacted Sarah Estep, and she gave me what I felt was a plausible explanation.
She found that in her experience, some souls were in what could only be called "Limbo".
These are souls that as humans, their lives ended abruptly, (ie. accident, war, plane crash etc) and they are not exactly sure where they are.
They are somewhere between death of the human they were incarnated in,and returning to that place where most souls go once they remove themselves from a dying body.
The soul I contacted was in need of help to free it from where it now found itself.
Once I understood the mystery, I tried, with no avail to reach that soul, but never got a response again.
Bob.
Hopefully, she went on to her proper place.
I think if I had a message like that and could not help, it would be very hard to forget.
Yes Reel to Reel is of course likely to give you a positive result as it is more subject to random white noise and random white noise is likely what is required in order to fool the brain into finding patterns that are not there.
Reel-to-reel, open reel tape recording is the form of magnetic tape audio recording in which the recording medium is held on a reel, rather than being securely contained within a cassette.
Again the trick here is to give you as much randomized noise as possible in order to help you find patterns that are not there because the human mind is great at finding patterns in things that are not there. Especially when the pattern is of something the human brain is evolved to find readily such as voices and faces.
Finding voices in the random white noise of a tape is no more remarkable than the people who are able to find faces in the random mountain ranges on the topology of mars.
It is obvious to all of us in this thread that you are incapable of being convinced concerning the merits of EVP,and that is fine with all of us but, for you (even though I am sure you won't believe a word of it) I offer the following.
This will blow your theory of "White noise", and it consequences, right out of the water.
There is no way white noise could account for the following.
First off, what I am about to tell you is true, and I would swear on my death, to it's truthfulness.
Years ago, in one of my recording sessions, I reached the point where I had asked a few questions, and was now ready to play it back to see if there were any response to my questions.
On play back, I hear myself say, "I'M going to play this back now", and right after those words I heard a woman ask, "Is that you Robert"?
I replayed the tape over and over to make sure I had heard what I had.
Again, the words were the same,"Is that you Robert?"
Now, in my entire life, there is only one person who has ever called me by my given name, and that is, my mother.
No one else, friend, or family, has ever called me anything but Bob, or Bobby.
My mother never called me anything but Robert.
I need to go back just a bit and tell you my family was not one of those close knit families, but neither were we what would be called dis-functional.
We just grew up and were taught to be independent.
When I moved to California, I did not contact my family very much , though we would call on holidays.
Well, after hearing that voice on the tape, I thought my mother had passed, and no one bothered to inform me.
I listened to the tape again,and the voice did not sound like my mother, so in an effort to make contact, I began recording once again.
I had made contact with the same voice, and the same question was asked, "Is that you Robert?"
I decided I would have to ask questions that only my mother would know the answers too, and thus proving the voice was that of my mother.
I asked what street we lived on when I was in high school, what her occupation was, when she passed, Was she sick before she died,what funeral home she was buried from,and what she wore for clothing when she was laid to rest.
She answered correctly for the personal questions, and then gave me the answers regarding her passing, and the pertinent information I had asked about.
I keep a written log of my recordings, so this session became part of that log.
After the taping session, I called back home in hopes someone could explain why I hadn't been contacted about her death.
My Dad answered the phone, and before I could ask what happened, my Dad stated, "Your mother has gone shopping, she should be back in an hour or so".
To say I was in a state of utter confusion would be an understatement.
Hearing that she was not dead, I didn't want to let on what I had been involved in regarding the taping sessions.
I asked how both were doing and my Dad said they were fine, and no health problems to speak of.
At this point, they were both in their late eighties.
I finished the call, and a couple of hours later, my mother called ,and we talked for a long time.
That was the last time I spoke to my mother.
A few years later I got word she had passed.
At that time, I could not return to the east coast for her funeral.
I called my sister a few days after the funeral, and wanted to know when she died, and the circumstances concerning her death.
Now, here is where it is absolutely mind twisting.
My sister gave me the exact answers that the spirit voice had given me three years earlier, right down to the cause of death, the funeral home she was buried from, and the clothes she wore, right down to the flowers in the corsage she wore when buried.
After the call, I remained in deep thought for a long time, then decided it was time to get in touch with Sarah Estep to see if she had an explanation as to what had happened.
She again came through with an explanation that seemed to make sense, at least for the personal question I had asked, but as for the particulars concerning my mother's death, and other information contained in that taping session she had no explanation.
As for the personal information, she told me spirits have an unusual (by human standards) degree of telepathy,and the questions I asked not only contained the question, but the answer as well.
When we ask a question that we already know the answer too, we are thinking about the answer, and it is that thought process that the spirit is able to pick up.
Thus this spirit knew the answer to the questions as I asked them.
Obviously the reason for the answers to the other questions remain a mystery because I did not know the answer to them at the time, so it could not be picked up by the spirit.
This ruled out picking up random voices from white noise.
This obviously was not random in any sense of the word.
Bob.
An amazing story, Bob. Thank you for telling it.
I wonder why her voice was different.
The voice was not that of my mother because at that time, my mother was still living.
The reason this particular spirit contacted me with the information is still a mystery.
Those I have talked too, have no answer as to how three years before the event, that spirit knew the particulars about my mother's passing.
Bob.
So? I never once suggested otherwise. I am constantly baffled why when - on a DISCUSSION FORUM when you choose to disagree with someone and patiently explain why you disagree with them - they then feel the need to point out their rights. What has this got to do with anything I said???
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain
I believe it may be likely that this person is being contacted by an entitly from the other side.
Do you now. How nice for you. However this is of no interest to me. It is not WHAT people believe that interest me but whether there is any reason for believing it. He might think its spirits, you might think so too, and I am sure you can line up another million people too. Yet even if you could line up 100 million such people this does not change the fact there is no reasons on offer TO beleive it.
Alas our species is all to happy to believe things that are entirely baseless and then waste their time with irrelevantly pointing out that believing such things is their right even when no one suggested otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain
If people experience things and our current science has not a clue as to how to explain it, how can people give YOU an explanation?
It happens all the time so not sure what your issue is. Our history is punctuated with 1000s of things people experienced, had no explanation for, but then explanations were found. It will continue thusly too.
However it is not my problem is it? The onus is on people making claims to evidence those claims. So if people like Calguy want to claim that not only do spirits exist but they communicate to him through the white noise of his cheap unshielded electronic recording apparatus then it is up to him to evidence it and find ways to evidence it - not me.
All I am doing is pointing out that no one has done this, much less him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain
I think you should try to be a bit more flexible in your thinking.
It does not matter how flexible one is. If you do not offer any evidence for a claim then there is no reason to believe the claim. Alas when people say things like "be a bit more flexible in your thinking" or "be more open minded" what they actually mean is "Agree with what I am saying simply because I am saying it".
By all means be open minded, but not so open minded that your brain falls out. Being open minded just means being willing to change your mind if and when given sufficient reason to do so. Given that we are not given ANY reason to do so on this thread, let alone sufficient reason, you have no grounds for comment about the mental flexibility of those pointing this out.
It is obvious to all of us in this thread that you are incapable of being convinced concerning the merits of EVP
Not exactly. What I AM incapable of being convinced of is claims that there is no evidence for. That is all. So no it is not that I am incapable of being convinced of EVP. It is that I am incapable of being convinced of it in the absence of you evidencing it. I am the same on any subject, not just EVP.
The fact is you are not providing a shred of evidence for the claim. Ad hominem comments about me being incapable of being convinced of it are just tricks to obfuscate that fact.
I could literally make any claim I want, no matter how ludicrous, and every time you ask me to prove the claim I can just have a tantrum and sob that you are "incapable of believing me".
This would not change the fact that I was making baseless claims. It does not change the fact YOU are making baseless claims.
I can be convinced of anything if evidence is presented. I am not likely to be convinced by you essentially going: "It is true.... no really it is... it is true.... true it is.... I know it is true.... other people think it is true too.... have I mentioned it is true..... by the way: it is true" over and over until you turn blue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY
First off, what I am about to tell you is true, and I would swear on my death, to it's truthfulness.
More unverifiable and possibly made up anecdote? Really? I thought we covered this already. Just making something up and then saying "I swear it is true" does not magically mean it is.
The voice was not that of my mother because at that time, my mother was still living.
The reason this particular spirit contacted me with the information is still a mystery.
Those I have talked too, have no answer as to how three years before the event, that spirit knew the particulars about my mother's passing.
Bob.
If there are people here who can read probable futures, then it might be an easier procedure after one passes. I don't want to start a controversy here about fortune tellers. Most may be deluded or lying, but some have the talent.
Also, perhaps it was some friend of hers or a relative who had passed? Maybe there is no specific reason, perhaps she did it merely because she could.
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