Question about UFO's (aliens, Mars, secret, lights)

[Vasily]

Originally Posted by gsoboi78

I find it interesting that scientists have just "discovered" gravity waves. But the UFO community have known this for decades because the manipulation of gravity waves is how UFOs fly.

Einstein predicted the existence of gravity waves a century ago, long before there was anything like a UFO community. Regarding UFOs using them to fly, well, that's a matter of faith, isn't it.

[Old Guard]

Originally Posted by gsoboi78

I find it interesting that scientists have just "discovered" gravity waves. But the UFO community have known this for decades because the manipulation of gravity waves is how UFOs fly. Bob Lazar, the scientist who claimed he worked at a secret base called S4 at Area 51 spoke of helping to back engineer extraterrestrial craft and spoke of two type of gravity waves. One type of gravity wave is the gravity we are familiar with. It keeps us on the ground. The other type of gravity wave is at the atomic level and it is the manipulation of this type of gravity wave that allows UFOs to fly and travel vast distances across the universe in a short period of time. I also find it interesting that Bob Lazar said the use of element 115 was the source that helped power extraterrestrial craft. At that time element 115 wasn't on the periodic table and was considered fantasy by mainstream scientists. But about a decade ago scientists "discovered" element 115 and it has the same properties Bob Lazar spoke of in 1989. Interesting to say the least. Its almost as if ufo technology is slowly being introduced to the general public as human scientific discovery. The discovery of the atom led to the atomic bomb. The "discovery" of gravity waves will lead to the control of gravity

You conflict your own statements.


Also where is the proof of how UFO's fly?

[ocpaul20]

Old Guard -

Also where is the proof of how UFO's fly?

You probably would not believe it if we told you, since this kind of information comes out (from secret projects) via whistleblowers.

If one whistleblower says something and then a few years later it is backed up by another account from another whistleblower, then there is more liklihood of there being something truthful about it. Of course, it may not be completely truthful and it may be disinformation, but the more people who come out and tell us about things which they have worked on, the better IMO.

There are some very credible military witnesses who have told us about the technology now available and there are people who say we have a secret space program too. One which uses the very same method of transport you are asking about.

I would ask you - How can you prove a technology back-engineered and developed by a secret project? Answer, you cannot, so you are pretty safe there eh?

[Old Guard]

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

Old Guard -
You probably would not believe it if we told you, since this kind of information comes out (from secret projects) via whistleblowers.

Do you have some of this? In the past the "whistleblowers" I have seen were not only near the places they stated they had access to, they were not qualified to do the jobs they say they did.

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

If one whistleblower says something and then a few years later it is backed up by another account from another whistleblower, then there is more liklihood of there being something truthful about it. Of course, it may not be completely truthful and it may be disinformation, but the more people who come out and tell us about things which they have worked on, the better IMO.

Roswell was decades ago and we have no credible information.

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

There are some very credible military witnesses who have told us about the technology now available and there are people who say we have a secret space program too.

Who are these people?

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

One which uses the very same method of transport you are asking about.

I would ask you - How can you prove a technology back-engineered and developed by a secret project? Answer, you cannot, so you are pretty safe there eh?

Actually Paul the question I asked was where is the proof of how UFO's fly? That is different than what you are trying to change it to.


So my question is still the same, where is the proof of how UFO's fly?


If your answer is that we cannot prove a technology was back engineered from alien technology then I ask you where is the final result of this back engineering? Why have these "whistleblowers" built a working model?


This is all relatively easy to prove.....if it is true.

[ocpaul20]

If your answer is that we cannot prove a technology was back engineered from alien technology then I ask you where is the final result of this back engineering? Why have these "whistleblowers" not built a working model?

I guess the proof of back engineered technology is the fact that we have (alledgedly) our own (military) UFOs. The whole point about a black project is that it is secret and no-one should know about it until it is disclosed publicly many years after it was developed. Just like the various spy planes we know about now.

Whistleblowers I would assume cannot build the technology for themselves any more than we can. We would probably need many different skills and documentation to be able to do that. I dont think whistleblowers have the complete picture as you know, everything is on a need to know basis. Asking that kind of question is practically and in real-life, unrealistic. So, not easy to prove, no.

Various conspriacies suggest aliens are here on Earth and working with the government. IF that is so, then it is likely the technology has been shared in return for who-knows-what. In my mind, many things are tied together and it is very difficult to start being interested in one topic without going further into the rabbit hole to investigate other topics which are connected.

Even just start investigating and reading up on the David Paulides Missing 411 books and see where that takes you. Seemingly fairly simple and uncomplicated missing persons topic but on at least 2 occasions IIRC the National Guard were brought in and yet did not liase with the Park Rangers so both groups ended up doing their own investigation. The NG did not share their results. Why?

[Old Guard]

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

I guess the proof of back engineered technology is the fact that we have (alledgedly) our own (military) UFOs. The whole point about a black project is that it is secret and no-one should know about it until it is disclosed publicly many years after it was developed. Just like the various spy planes we know about now.

Whistleblowers I would assume cannot build the technology for themselves any more than we can. We would probably need many different skills and documentation to be able to do that. I dont think whistleblowers have the complete picture as you know, everything is on a need to know basis. Asking that kind of question is practically and in real-life, unrealistic. So, not easy to prove, no.

Various conspriacies suggest aliens are here on Earth and working with the government. IF that is so, then it is likely the technology has been shared in return for who-knows-what. In my mind, many things are tied together and it is very difficult to start being interested in one topic without going further into the rabbit hole to investigate other topics which are connected.

Even just start investigating and reading up on the David Paulides Missing 411 books and see where that takes you. Seemingly fairly simple and uncomplicated missing persons topic but on at least 2 occasions IIRC the National Guard were brought in and yet did not liase with the Park Rangers so both groups ended up doing their own investigation. The NG did not share their results. Why?

If knowledgeable whistle blowers are giving credible information they most certainly should be able to reverse engineer what they are speaking about. Otherwise they are just guessing.

Even if they do not have the resources to do it there are many corporations, governments and universities WORLDWIDE that do and would be willing to help.

It is easy to debunk these "whistle blowers".

[ocpaul20]

If you have ever been in the military, then these witnesses are military personnel and many were at Steven Greer's The Disclosure Project Press Conference in 2001. (I think) The Disclosure Project had over 400 witnesses to UFO and alien technology, but I am absolutely sure you have heard all this before and since you obviously do not believe any of these people, I will not go on about it.

Why would whistleblowers go into business and recreate what the government has already produced? I do not think they want to give the technology to other countries because most people are aware of the need for a military advantage. Many universituies are working with the government already in terms of grants, research, and recruitment.

Sightings of strange craft by multiple witnesses in the Phoenix Lights sightings for example, should tell you that the military have this advanced technology already. Unless, of course, you believe these large silent flying craft are UFOs??? :-)

No, it is not easy to "debunk" these whistleblowers and you insult them hugely by suggesting that **ALL** of these military people are liars. Even if a few are embellishing the stories, there are things which can be matched up with stories from others whistleblowers and examined for truth and have been.

You just continue to believe what you believe. However, you are very persistent and vocal about this which makes me wonder why you continue to argue about it and deny the very existence of huge unexplained craft in our skies?

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

If you have ever been in the military, then these witnesses are military personnel and many were at Steven Greer's The Disclosure Project Press Conference in 2001. (I think) The Disclosure Project had over 400 witnesses to UFO and alien technology, but I am absolutely sure you have heard all this before and since you obviously do not believe any of these people, I will not go on about it.

I have heard many of the witnesses. I don't remember a single one claiming UFOs are reverse-engineered alien technology. I do remember military personnel, pilots, scientists, police officers, etc. saying, "This is what I saw. I don't know what it was."

If you have some information to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

Sightings of strange craft by multiple witnesses in the Phoenix Lights sightings for example, should tell you that the military have this advanced technology already. Unless, of course, you believe these large silent flying craft are UFOs??? :-)

I do believe the Phoenix Lights were UFOs (Unidentified Flying Objects). If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

[Old Guard]

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

If you have ever been in the military,

I have been in the military. Have you?

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

then these witnesses are military personnel and many were at Steven Greer's The Disclosure Project Press Conference in 2001. (I think) The Disclosure Project had over 400 witnesses to UFO and alien technology, but I am absolutely sure you have heard all this before and since you obviously do not believe any of these people, I will not go on about it.

Just because someone was in the military does not mean they are credible. The military has the some makeup as the general population. There are drug users and liars in the military as there are in real life.

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

Why would whistleblowers go into business and recreate what the government has already produced?

Profit and to prove what they are saying. The more important question is why would they NOT?

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

I do not think they want to give the technology to other countries because most people are aware of the need for a military advantage. Many universituies are working with the government already in terms of grants, research, and recruitment.

I they are so concerned about other countries then why are the whistle blowers? This makes no sense. The real issue is they do not have the knowledge they claim they have.

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

Sightings of strange craft by multiple witnesses in the Phoenix Lights sightings for example, should tell you that the military have this advanced technology already. Unless, of course, you believe these large silent flying craft are UFOs??? :-)

I am not sure in the context of this discussion that it matters if the technology is UFO or military technology gained from UFO's.

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

No, it is not easy to "debunk" these whistleblowers and you insult them hugely by suggesting that **ALL** of these military people are liars.

ALL? 400 is a VERY small number of veterans. Some may actually believe what they are saying and not be right, some may be in it for fame and or profit and some may be lying about their military records. 400 people is less than 1%....much less.

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

Even if a few are embellishing the stories, there are things which can be matched up with stories from others whistleblowers and examined for truth and have been.

A lot of these things do not stand up to scrutiny though.

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

You just continue to believe what you believe. However, you are very persistent and vocal about this which makes me wonder why you continue to argue about it and deny the very existence of huge unexplained craft in our skies?

Because I do not believe everything I read on the Internet?

[Rance]

My guess...UFO's have lights as visual aids...so they don't run in to each other!

The one I saw was during daylight hours under a heavy overcast. The entire thing (cigar shape) was lit up like the sun. Very bright orange. Couldn't see any other lights on it.