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If you agree with him, and really think you need to be asking for proof from people who post their accounts of paranormal experiences on here then you should support him like you do in other threads.
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...but it won't make a believer out of me.
We are not here to make you a 'believer', please get that into your head. I really dont understand why you both think we need to provide proof?
Who cares if they are all fabrications, fantasies and stories?
I believe some of these accounts because I have experienced similar things, but if you haven't then thats fine too. Dont sweat trying to find proof. Who really cares if it is proved or not, it is only you who appears to need proof.
Like a dog chasing its tail, you will never find enough to believe using someone elses accounts. That is why I have to assume there is some other reason for asking for proof all the time.
Opening description of true believers, 'Someone who believes any woo'. I'm just say'n....
That can be said for any belief though, not just woo. It can also be said for belief that logical proof is necessary for something to be 'real', 'valid' and credible as 'evidence', although it will be unlikely to happen anytime soon.
It is still a belief at the moment because these things cannot be proved and measured like other physical phenomena science deals with.
If you agree with him, and really think you need to be asking for proof from people who post their accounts of paranormal experiences on here then you should support him like you do in other threads.
I do agree with him more often than not and will chime in when I have something to add. But I have a life beyond the Internet and don't spend every waking moment reading every post in every thread. I'm sure the cosmos will continue to shine without my opinion occasionally.
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Originally Posted by ocpaul20
We are not here to make you a 'believer', please get that into your head. I really dont understand why you both think we need to provide proof?
"Proof" is too strong a word. In the end, you can't really "proove" anything beyond doubt. But you can present evidence or a least a reasonable explanation for a claim. That's all I ask.
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Originally Posted by ocpaul20
Who cares if they are all fabrications, fantasies and stories?
Me. Truth matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
I believe some of these accounts because I have experienced similar things, but if you haven't then thats fine too. Dont sweat trying to find proof. Who really cares if it is proved or not, it is only you who appears to need proof.
Like a dog chasing its tail, you will never find enough to believe using someone elses accounts. That is why I have to assume there is some other reason for asking for proof all the time.
I don't discount the possibility of the paranormal. I have seen a UFO three times in my life. Of those three, two might have been man-made aircraft just behaving in a weird way. The other ... I have no explanation for. Also, I might have seen a ghost once. And I think I might have a fairy living in my dishwasher.
But here is where I differ from the woo-woof crowd. Just because I have experienced things for which I don't (yet) have a good explanation doesn't mean I am going to buy into every unsubstantiated explanation or conspiracy theory or start chanting with crystals in the moonlight.
Just take the one example: The UFO I can't explain. I saw something in the sky for which I have no explanation. That does not mean I immediately jump to aliens or angels or visitors from the Hollow Earth or the Herald of Galactus. All of those are certainly possibilities, but until further evidence comes to light, the jury is still out.
I'll say this -- for someone who says he doesn't care whether the things people post here are "all fabrications, fantasies and stories", and who claims he's not here to convince anyone of anything, ocpaul spends a lot of time posting here and clobbering people like myself. He writes:
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Like a dog chasing its tail, you will never find enough to believe using someone elses accounts. That is why I have to assume there is some other reason for asking for proof all the time.
One has to wonder what ocpaul's "some other reason" is for posting here, if he doesn't care what other people believe or whether it's all "fabrications, fantasies and stories". Mark S have made clear multiple times why we're posting here yet ocpaul and his ilk choose to keep challenging our motives over and over again. It would be funny, if it weren't so tiresome.
95% or so of ALL paranormal claims/stories are bunk. There is more garbage in the subject than your average city dump. In that 95%, not all are outright lies and fabrications though... most are actually misinterpretations of ambiguous events and human psychology doing it's thing. For example, seeing a fleeting shadow in your house during the middle of the night and feeling scared or feeling like you are being watched, and yes, mental problems like hallucinations. Then there are the pretenders, muddying up the waters for their own reasons.
Now that other 5%... that's the rare and decidedly unambiguous stuff, such as seeing a full body apparition appear/disappear in front of your face, a object move on it's own for no logical reason or having the occupants of a UFO stop you in the middle of the night on a lonely stretch of road and *experiment* with you . This is further complicated by the fact that certain mental problems can cause similar false paranormal events (but obviously not everyone with mental problems has such experiences) and because of the "paranormal beings" (whatever they are) themselves who are highly intelligent and clearly do not want their presence to be common knowledge among the hairless bipedal apes.
Another point is that while science is a great tool for understanding how the world around us works, it is by it's nature incomplete and limited. As a human institution/thought process, science is an inadequate tool for things that go beyond human comprehension (take quantum mechanics for example).
I guess I can't blame the skeptics for writing off the 5% too... but it does happen whether the skeptics accept it or not.
What skeptics don't understand or appreciate is the emotional and psychological damage caused to a person who experiences something that rightly should not happen or exist. It's very distressing to have your personal mental "box" that you use to understand the world around you ripped open and dumped all over the floor, and it takes time and thought to rebuild your comprehension of the world and stay psychologically functional.
That's why experiencers of the paranormal need to get together and talk about it. It's therapy for them... and just like you wouldn't bust into a meeting of vets with PTSD and troll them for feeling that way you can only be a duchebag if you get a kick out of trolling a paranormal forum when the people there are just trying to understand WTF happened to them.
Another unfortunate fact is that since the paranormal isn't recognized as real, professional help is generally unavailable and unhelpful, so it's up to the experiencer him/herself to wade though the crap and deflect attacks from the haters, who apparently consider their mental "boxes" so important that they actually have to make preemptive strikes on any potential information that doesn't fit in their world view.
Anyway, it's a challenging mess. Ignorance is bliss I guess... all I know it that life was easier when I still believed "all that is" could be written down in a science book, and that the "hollywood style" understanding on the paranormal was infinitely more entertaining, comprehendable and easily put away than the real deal.
One has to wonder what ocpaul's "some other reason" is for posting here, if he doesn't care what other people believe or whether it's all "fabrications, fantasies and stories". Mark S have made clear multiple times why we're posting here yet ocpaul and his ilk choose to keep challenging our motives over and over again. It would be funny, if it weren't so tiresome.
I'll tell you flat out, Ocpaul and his ilk's a fabrication. Even with the best of intentions, the audience of responders was lost after, 'someone who believes any woo'. You didnt honestly believe they'll dish here?
I am a true believer but I don't believe all the legends that many people believe in. I do believe in the experiences of others but not necessarily in their interpretations.
I never doubt someone who makes a claim of what they saw or heard or felt. It isn't my business to judge.
On the food forum someone could say that Mayonnaise tastes yucky. To them that is fact. Someone else might say "I love mayonnaise" and that is respected as different subjective experiences.
People in that section don't ask for proof about the taste of the Mayonnaise. They don't demand a scientific exploration of the subjects taste buds.
The point is that if this is a paranormal section then why can't people talk about their own experiences without being harrassed. Everybody doesn't have to agree with the belief system but if somebody says they saw a ghost then they probably saw a ghost. What is a ghost? Who knows. People have different theories. I doubt theories, not experiences.
Originally Posted by Vasily
One has to wonder what ocpaul's "some other reason" is for posting here, if he doesn't care what other people believe or whether it's all "fabrications, fantasies and stories". Mark S have made clear multiple times why we're posting here yet ocpaul and his ilk choose to keep challenging our motives over and over again. It would be funny, if it weren't so tiresome. Originally Posted by Virgode
I'll tell you flat out, Ocpaul and his ilk's a fabrication. Even with the best of intentions, the audience of responders was lost after, 'someone who believes any woo'. You didnt honestly believe they'll dish here?
Wow, I do have many ilks, dont I?
Sad you have to start on the attack, cannot play the game and discuss the topic, but it is expected. Never mind. Whatever makes your small life go round.
Wow, I do have many ilks, dont I?
Sad you have to start on the attack, cannot play the game and discuss the topic, but it is expected. Never mind. Whatever makes your small life go round.
When this forum orignally opened in 2012 after a few of us pressed administration for the forum; intention was like minded sharing of stories. Scattered trollers expected on forums; I'm baffled why anyone without an ounce of belief and no experience to speak from hangs around in a paranormal forum e v e r y d a y requesting
evidence like evidence would actually satisfy their curiosity.
I have a couple good photos of apparitians and someone I know with paranormal experiences living near a battlefield gets photos all the time. Sharing here...out of the question.
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. This is further complicated by the fact that certain mental problems can cause similar false paranormal events (but obviously not everyone with mental problems has such experiences) and because of the "paranormal beings" (whatever they are) themselves who are highly intelligent and clearly do not want their presence to be common knowledge among the hairless bipedal apes. 
Ignorance is bliss I guess... all I know it that life was easier when I still believed "all that is" could be written down in a science book, and that the "hollywood style" understanding on the paranormal was infinitely more entertaining, comprehendable and easily put away than the real deal.
