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I disagree with your message. There is more of a safety net in the UK for sure and access to medical care is absolutely better, but I wouldn't want to live on welfare in either country! I have a slightly better income here than I had in the UK but the cost of living in the UK was massively more expensive than here. I have a much better deal here on one income than I had on two at home. In the UK I couldn't have afforded more than an apartment where I lived. I lived in Windsor which is expensive but the cheaper areas would mean moving to Slough or Reading (shudder!) and they are not cheap!!
Job security is greater in the UK for sure. If you have a good job than material things (house/car etc) are more easily available here, if that floats your boat. Given the current conservative budgeting I would say that the easier access to education that existed in the UK is dwindling.
I haven't visited Reading (sounds like it's just as bad as Reading, PA) but Slough is a very dreadful place to live. There's metal shutters in the windows on the houses there, and I know that's not for hurricanes. I would walk past estate agents in Windsor and see tiny little houses advertised for £400,000 I think the cheapest one I saw was around £300k. Absolutely ridiculous.
I disagree with your message. There is more of a safety net in the UK for sure and access to medical care is absolutely better, but I wouldn't want to live on welfare in either country! I have a slightly better income here than I had in the UK but the cost of living in the UK was massively more expensive than here. I have a much better deal here on one income than I had on two at home. In the UK I couldn't have afforded more than an apartment where I lived. I lived in Windsor which is expensive but the cheaper areas would mean moving to Slough or Reading (shudder!) and they are not cheap!!
Job security is greater in the UK for sure. If you have a good job than material things (house/car etc) are more easily available here, if that floats your boat. Given the current conservative budgeting I would say that the easier access to education that existed in the UK is dwindling.
Thank you, I'm always interested in reading others accounts, but could you elaborate for me on what point it is that we disagree?
My husband and I have some good friends who are Belgian. We visit each other fairly often - they come here or we go there.
They are very well off - in Belgium. They have a lovely home there on the outskirts of Brussels.
They are AMAZED at the low cost of real estate in our area (Northeast Texas). They love to drive around and look at properties for sale. They are also very impressed with our 2400 square foot house and one acre of land in a neighborhood, and with the huge walk in closets, large master suites, etc that are common in US homes. When we told them what we paid for our property, I thought we were going to have to pick them up off the floor!
Size isn't everything.
Do your Belgian friends realise that if they moved to Texas into a McMansion, they would probably (or definitely) have to:
1) Spend much more time and money commuting by car, even though petrol is less expensive state side
2) Pay extortionate healthcare costs if they get sick and monthly premiums for health insurance
3) Forgoe employee and consumer rights that most Belgians, British people and EU citizens in general take for granted when starry eyed about America.
4) Pay much more to put their kids through university
5) Accept that construction in the US is generally of a lower standard (build big & cheap is the order of the day, whereas homes in Europe are generally older)
6) Work longer hours with less annual leave
It's all swings and roundabouts at the end of the day, but the notion that America is superior irritates me as it all depends what your priorities in life are and what you enjoy doing. I would not swap my cozy little flat here and my lifestyle that I enjoy for a huge McMansion in a bland American suburb. I would be bored ****less, no offence.
T
I can appreciate why you might feel the need to qualify this, as on internet fora there is often a gap in understanding between truth and stereotype, however I offer my assurances that I'm under no illusions as to the reality that is middle-class America. I said earlier that you'd have to be insane to choose to be born in the USA over the UK if you knew in advance that you'd be confined to dead-end jobs, I'm happy to accept that if one had the choice of being born into a privileged family, they would enjoy more material comforts in the USA than in the UK.
Eoin
You'd be insane to choose to be born ANYWHERE if you knew in advance that you'd be confined to dead end jobs in that location.
Fortunately this is not true in the US. Both my husband and my ex husband were born into poor families - I mean DIRT poor. My ex husband is now a Col in the US Army and my husband is an oilfield consultant now. My father built his own business as well.
I know many, many self made men and women in the US. Opportunities of COURSE differ widely depending on skill set, work ethic, location, etc - this is a huge country with a wide variety of lifestyles. But it is simply not true that one must be born into a privileged family in order to be successful in the business world in the US - in fact, that idea is laughable to me.
Do your Belgian friends realise that if they moved to Texas into a McMansion, they would probably (or definitely) have to:
1) Spend much more time and money commuting by car, even though petrol is less expensive state side
2) Pay extortionate healthcare costs if they get sick and monthly premiums for health insurance
3) Forgoe employee and consumer rights that most Belgians, British people and EU citizens in general take for granted when starry eyed about America.
4) Pay much more to put their kids through university
5) Accept that construction in the US is generally of a lower standard (build big & cheap is the order of the day, whereas homes in Europe are generally older)
6) Work longer hours with less annual leave
It's all swings and roundabouts at the end of the day, but the notion that America is superior irritates me as it all depends what your priorities in life are and what you enjoy doing. I would not swap my cozy little flat here and my lifestyle that I enjoy for a huge McMansion in a bland American suburb. I would be bored ****less, no offence.
Personal preference.
First of all, I didn't say that EITHER the UK or the US was superior. I was simply balancing the picture with some truth about the US. I have not lived in the UK but I am sure there are some lovely areas as well as some blighted areas there. My daughter just moved to Harrogate and so far she loves it there - for a temporary home (3-4 years). I loved living in Germany, but I was glad to get back to the US. I think that's a normal mindset.
Now - as for your other points, I'm not going to take them one by one and argue them - not because I couldn't but because so much of the financial picture, including healthcare costs, university costs, construction, gas prices, public transportation, etc is so VARIED from locale to locale in the US that any of your points could be argued for or against all day long. But that's another great thing about the US - if you don't like living in a particular area or state - move. The choices are nearly endless.
By the way - not everyone - not even MOST Americans - live in "McMansions" in "bland American suburbs." There's such a huge variety of housing types, towns, cities, rural areas, etc in the US that NO ONE has to be relegated to that lifestyle. Many do prefer it - not me, but it's my personal choice.
But if it makes you feel superior to imagine that most Americans are stuck in McMansions, have a two hour commute, and are bored out of their minds, have at it. There's no telling what I would think about Brits if I believed that wide generalizations, stereotypes, and mainstream media accounts accurately portrayed the UK.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 10-31-2012 at 09:58 AM..
Also not all of the UK is expensive for housing. London and the southeast is expensive though.
That's what I said. Property is much more affordable outside of the southeast, but how desirable is the rest of the country? How are unemployment rates in the rest of the country? The north of England has very affordable properties, but the region is a rust belt with high unemployment
You'd be insane to choose to be born ANYWHERE if you knew in advance that you'd be confined to dead end jobs in that location.
I quite agree with you! However we can still ask the hypothetical as to which nation one would prefer to be born into under the circumstances.
Quote:
Fortunately this is not true in the US. Both my husband and my ex husband were born into poor families - I mean DIRT poor. My ex husband is now a Col in the US Army and my husband is an oilfield consultant now. My father built his own business as well.
I know many, many self made men and women in the US. Opportunities of COURSE differ widely depending on skill set, work ethic, location, etc - this is a huge country with a wide variety of lifestyles. But it is simply not true that one must be born into a privileged family in order to be successful in the business world in the US - in fact, that idea is laughable to me.
Once again I agree with you. I hope I haven't implied anywhere in this thread (or any other!) that one must be born into privileged circumstances in order to move up the socio-economic scale, and your efforts are a credit to yourself and your husband!
You'll forgive me for saying though, that my point related solely to those at the bottom of the pile who have been condemned by some circumstances to remaining there. I presume we can agree that of those born into poverty, a sizeable proportion of that number will remain in the circumstances of their birth? On the off-chance that you do not agree, or otherwise to embellish my point, I'll furnish the statistics.
42% of men born in the poorest 1/5 of the US population will permanently remain there. (Compared to 25% and 30% in Denmark and the UK respectively)
65% of those born in the poorest 1/5 of the US population will permanently remain in the bottom 2/5.
Again, I re-iterate that I'm not trying to knock the USA, my remarks in this thread were solely intended to respond to the theme that tvdxer's post touched upon.
That's what I said. Property is much more affordable outside of the southeast, but how desirable is the rest of the country? How are unemployment rates in the rest of the country? The north of England has very affordable properties, but the region is a rust belt with high unemployment
Well unemployment rates in Scotland are 7.9%, compared to 7.8% unemployed in the USA. I don't know whether you'd consider Scotland desirable or not, but the house prices don't come anywhere close to SE England!
First of all, I didn't say that EITHER the UK or the US was superior. I was simply balancing the picture with some truth about the US. I have not lived in the UK but I am sure there are some lovely areas as well as some blighted areas there. My daughter just moved to Harrogate and so far she loves it there - for a temporary home (3-4 years). I loved living in Germany, but I was glad to get back to the US. I think that's a normal mindset.
Now - as for your other points, I'm not going to take them one by one and argue them - not because I couldn't but because so much of the financial picture, including healthcare costs, university costs, construction, gas prices, public transportation, etc is so VARIED from locale to locale in the US that any of your points could be argued for or against all day long. But that's another great thing about the US - if you don't like living in a particular area or state - move. The choices are nearly endless.
By the way - not everyone - not even MOST Americans - live in "McMansions" in "bland American suburbs." There's such a huge variety of housing types, towns, cities, rural areas, etc in the US that NO ONE has to be relegated to that lifestyle. Many do prefer it - not me, but it's my personal choice.
But if it makes you feel superior to imagine that most Americans are stuck in McMansions, have a two hour commute, and are bored out of their minds, have at it. There's no telling what I would think about Brits if I believed that wide generalizations, stereotypes, and mainstream media accounts accurately portrayed the UK.
Wow, someone got out of bed the wrong side this morning!
I don't feel superior, but perhaps you should address some of the posts of your fellow countrymen who clearly do feel superior.
The FACTS are that Americans generally do work longer hours, do endure longer commutes, do have fewer rights as employees and consumers and do pay more for health care. Care to counter that, rather than just blow off smoke? On the flip side, property is generally cheaper and bigger in the US, the quality of health care is generally better (IF you can afford it) and if you're earning a big salary, you're probably financially better off.
Not for me though. The stuff I enjoy is right here at home. I have Birmingham, Wales and beautiful scenery on my doorstep, I mostly travel by train and there's the remains of a Roman village just 30 minutes from me.
'nuff said.
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I think the cheapest one I saw was around £300k. Absolutely ridiculous.
