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To say Ireland only became prosperous because of the EU is naive as Ireland only ever lost it's prosperity due to centuries of oppressive laws and continously invasions by a foreign invader. It takes many years for a country to rise out of poverty and while being in the EU market was a huge help it certainly isn't the reason for it being one of the most prosperous otherwise every EU country would be the same. A number of policies many decades ago such as investing in education, subsidies from the EU market when it was the poorest nation in the EU and attracting High tech industry investment to the nation. While the UK and many other western nations were losing their manufacturing industries they invested heavily in the services sector especially financial in which places like London is now one of the most central global financial markets. It's largely props up the UK economy. Ireland needed to do the same and it did so attracting huge multi national corporations. Western nations are largely service based nations. Although Ireland has one of the largest agricultural industries in Europe the money this earns is little compared to the IT and pharmaceutical industry.
Ireland expects to earn a budget surplus of up to 65 billion Euro by 2025. Tell me one other nation that is as prosperous as this today? It will use this money to largely re-invest back into certain industries to diversify the economy. Scandinavian nations did the same decades ago when they weren't very prosperous at all. I wonder however with the housing and migrant crisis affecting Ireland how quickly much of these gains might be taken away. It's a western problem in general however and there doesn't seem to be any immediate fix. People are getting very angry as their standsrd of living Is diminishing
As for Australia being a large country with a large population. It's population is actually very small for it's size. It is much more sparsely populated than anywhere in Europe for example and even the US. It's prosperity mainly comes from the resource sector. Australia is rich in minerals. It pays skilled workers well to take it out. Even unskilled laborers can earn six figure salaries but this is largely due to the number of hours they do, 70-80 hours per week.
Also while I do agree the Pentagon's budget is astronomical surely the American people should be looked after first? The US used to top the charts in standard of living but not it isn't even close. Hopefully conditions can improve in time for the people.
Again outside of Australian mines I don't know where any Irish person would go to chase a fortune. Most other developed nations offer a similar standard of living they can get at home. People from developed nations mostly migrate today not for economic reasons but largely circumstances and a desire of change of lifestyle. Each country may offer things that people from other lands are attracted to.
I agree that Ireland is a nation that had a long history of oppression and the poverty which resulted from it. I should have added to my comment about the EU that the natural intelligence and hard work of the Irish was the defining factor of it's success once the money and investment started to arrive
America's problem is that over the past five decades millions of immigrants from the poor countries of South America were allowed in, many to fill the menial low paying jobs that native born Americans didnt want. They had to live in ghettos, raise their kids there, too poor to afford decent schooling and it became a self perpetuating problem.
The US system of private enterprise health care has a lot to recommend it despite the negative coverage it is prone to. . The elderly are well covered overall thru Medicare and supplemental coverage from private insurance companies. There are no long waiting periods for hospital beds, no waiting for non life threatening surgery. My old dad in the UK waited almost five years for knee surgery. I could get it done in the matter of five weeks and pay nothing
Some treatment however is sometimes not covered. There's no charge for an emergency call to the County Paramedic Fire Service but the ride in an ambulance to even a nearby hospital can cost a couple of hundred dollars
Obviously the reason for the astronomical costs of defence are of course America's involvement in everyone else's problems since the end of WW2. If Trump wins in 2024 things may change and people are getting fed up of foreign wars and all the money that the US is having to send in support of one side or another.
I agree that Ireland is a nation that had a long history of oppression and the poverty which resulted from it. I should have added to my comment about the EU that the natural intelligence and hard work of the Irish was the defining factor of it's success once the money and investment started to arrive
America's problem is that over the past five decades millions of immigrants from the poor countries of South America were allowed in, many to fill the menial low paying jobs that native born Americans didnt want. They had to live in ghettos, raise their kids there, too poor to afford decent schooling and it became a self perpetuating problem.
The US system of private enterprise health care has a lot to recommend it despite the negative coverage it is prone to. . The elderly are well covered overall thru Medicare and supplemental coverage from private insurance companies. There are no long waiting periods for hospital beds, no waiting for non life threatening surgery. My old dad in the UK waited almost five years for knee surgery. I could get it done in the matter of five weeks and pay nothing
Some treatment however is sometimes not covered. There's no charge for an emergency call to the County Paramedic Fire Service but the ride in an ambulance to even a nearby hospital can cost a couple of hundred dollars
Obviously the reason for the astronomical costs of defence are of course America's involvement in everyone else's problems since the end of WW2. If Trump wins in 2024 things may change and people are getting fed up of foreign wars and all the money that the US is having to send in support of one side or another.
Wasn't the US always a paradise for the poor to go to rise up out of poverty? Where they could to escape persecution? I don't think the US economy is a problem at all or suffering. The US economy elipses EVERY other nation in the world in terms of GDP. Your correct about the poor migrants who live in Ghettos and contribute to the very high crime rate and poverty rating. Of course Irish and Italian migrants for were like this aswell when they first arrived. Do you think the migrants from south America today will do the same? Where they will raise their status and turn these ghettos into beautiful and safe places to live?
As for US Healthcare. I know it has exceptionally low wait times but it's just the number of people who don't have access to basic Healthcare. Also even with insurance it can still be extremely expensive. For example to have a baby with health insurance in the US out of pocket costs still average close to $3000. We pay for nothing here. I like Australia's system more than the US and UK because it covers the very basics through Medicare. We pay into Medicare however for a more efficient Healthcare plan you can go private and cut out having to pay the 2% Medicare levy.
As you were saying if the US decreases military spending just by a small amount while still remaining the largest superpower it could really turn things around. I feel Americans were happy enough with such spending when things were going good so I'm not surprised that many are demanding a President that isn't sending billions overseas at a time when people at home need it most.
I never had that experience and most of us didn't thankfully. My experience with Catholicism and Christinity in general has only been positive. Those that did such evils were a minority. You know state run institutions in the UK and US did the same if not worse. They were shipped abroad in many instances to the colonies where they were continuously abused. You guys only focus on the Church to justify your hatred of it. Unfortunately it was in every western nation religious and secular. I don't know why those in glass houses are throwing stones.
I dont 'hate" the Catholic church. I just despise it for it's past history of corruption, enriching itself and keeping the gullible in ignorance. The vast cover up concerning the abuse and molestation of children by priests was the last straw. Cardinal Mahoney who led the Los Angeles Diocese was found to have re-assigned such priests to other areas rather than kicking them out. That went on in widespread areas all over the country.
On the subject of the religiously devout as it concerns the N.I troubles. How did the Catholic church relate to the activities of the IRA which as is common knowledge carried out acts that are universally known as "terrorism" such as planting bombs resulting in the deaths of innocent people and executing or knee capping those suspected of being informants? Just curious. thats all
As for the nuns I encountered they were pretty handy with the cane as I recall and full of stories about "Hell" and "Damnation" Pretty scary **** for a five year old
I dont 'hate" the Catholic church. I just despise it for it's past history of corruption, enriching itself and keeping the gullible in ignorance. The vast cover up concerning the abuse and molestation of children by priests was the last straw. Cardinal Mahoney who led the Los Angeles Diocese was found to have re-assigned such priests to other areas rather than kicking them out. That went on in widespread areas all over the country.
On the subject of the religiously devout as it concerns the N.I troubles. How did the Catholic church relate to the activities of the IRA which as is common knowledge carried out acts that are universally known as "terrorism" such as planting bombs resulting in the deaths of innocent people and executing or knee capping those suspected of being informants? Just curious. thats all
As for the nuns I encountered they were pretty handy with the cane as I recall and full of stories about "Hell" and "Damnation" Pretty scary **** for a five year old
The IRA are not seen by terrorists by the vast majority of Ireland and world at large including the country you now live in even though many of it's attacks were wrong. This should be evident given the that the political wing of the IRA is now the largest party in Irish history and how It was given Billions In support around the world which allowed it to carry out a sustained campaign for decades. Some of it's attacks were absolutely horrific however and can never be justified but then so was the dropping of the atomic bomb in Japan or the intentional night terrorist bombings of German cities killings hundreds of thousands. The Luftwaffe were just as bad during the Blitz murdering thousands of innocents. Most of the IRA attacks were against military targets evident by the 1200 members of the British security forces killed and thousands more wounded and it's these attacks that can be justified as acts of war just as attacks against the IRA directly are acts of war. Combatants vs combatants. When evil acts such as attacks against civilians are carried out in war whether it be by the British, Americans, French, Irish etc then they should be called out and rebuked as war crimes but attacks against combatants are acts of war that Britain knew very well why it was getting attacked. Britain were the bad guys in Ireland which is why this part of history is something almost all British people never talk about. They would rather it be forgotten and never brought up.
As for the role of the Catholic Church. Officially the Church and ALL the Church's condemned ALL the violence by Republicans, Loyalists and those commited by the British security forces and many of it's policies such as internment. Some clergy however did support the Republican movement and IRA. At the end of the day they were Irishmen witnessing their land being ravaged by what was seen by Many as a foreign oppressor that had no right to be there. The Church's together however were instrumental in bringing about the GFA and keeping a leash on the armed groups. The Unionist people and Nationalist people who were mostly Christian were able to prevent atrocities from spiraling out of control and when such atrocities were commited they were condemned ferociously by the majority of their community forcing the groups to pull back from the brink. When British forces commited atrocites it only strenghtened the IRA. When attacks against combatants were carried out however they were usually celebrated by the side which was most successful as is the case in every war. As for the IRA executing and punishing informants. Think of the IRA as as a more effective French Resistance, the Dutch resistance, Polish etc during WW2. Then you will understand their tactics.
As for the fire and brimstone stories. This was common among many Christian denominations during the 20th century and to be honest I was thankful I never got to experience it. I don't let the corruption of others affect my beliefs anymore than I let the corruption of police officers affect my view on the Police and the Justice system. We all know these people acted wrongly even if they meant well in some cases such as trying to scare children from doing evil. I was thankful for growing up when Philosophy was championed again once more in the Church and such fear tactics disappeared. Today it has went almost to the other extreme where many clergy in the Church are trying to promote what is known as Wokeism. There will ALWAYS be a struggle between good and evil and that struggle in the Church is where you would expect to find it at it's fiercest if it was in any way the road to truth. It doesn't put me off as this has ALWAYS existed. Judas betrayed Jesus, Peter denied him three times and Thomas doubted him. And these were people who walked and talked with our Lord himself nevermind those today who often forget their role and get swept up in vices that consume them. None of us are without Sin
My beliefs mostly stem from the Philosophical reasons for God's existence and history of Christ and his Church. As J.R.R describes Christianity, the true myth that works in us the same as all the others with the tremendous difference that it really happened. It is the fulfillment of all the myths. The only individuals we look to as an example of Christ, his Church and it's teachings are the Saints
I dont 'hate" the Catholic church. I just despise it for it's past history of corruption, enriching itself and keeping the gullible in ignorance. The vast cover up concerning the abuse and molestation of children by priests was the last straw. Cardinal Mahoney who led the Los Angeles Diocese was found to have re-assigned such priests to other areas rather than kicking them out. That went on in widespread areas all over the country.
On the subject of the religiously devout as it concerns the N.I troubles. How did the Catholic church relate to the activities of the IRA which as is common knowledge carried out acts that are universally known as "terrorism" such as planting bombs resulting in the deaths of innocent people and executing or knee capping those suspected of being informants? Just curious. thats all
As for the nuns I encountered they were pretty handy with the cane as I recall and full of stories about "Hell" and "Damnation" Pretty scary **** for a five year old
The Catholic Church was wrong in covering molesters, but they were hardly the only organisation that did it. The BBC had its fair share of molesters too, as did other Churches & sports organizations.But they seem to get blamed more than any others, partly due to some anti Catholic bigotry which is real in many places of USA. At least now, Catholic charities do much good work. I went to a Catholic school, & some nuns were nasty, but not all of them.
As far as the IRA bombings & the C Church, I think the priests were entitled to their opinions of the status of Ireland, as was Ian Paisley, the protestant antagonist.
The Catholic Church was wrong in covering molesters, but they were hardly the only organisation that did it. The BBC had its fair share of molesters too, as did other Churches & sports organizations.But they seem to get blamed more than any others, partly due to some anti Catholic bigotry which is real in many places of USA. At least now, Catholic charities do much good work. I went to a Catholic school, & some nuns were nasty, but not all of them.
As far as the IRA bombings & the C Church, I think the priests were entitled to their opinions of the status of Ireland, as was Ian Paisley, the protestant antagonist.
The Catholic Church was wrong in covering molesters, but they were hardly the only organisation that did it. The BBC had its fair share of molesters too, as did other Churches & sports organizations.But they seem to get blamed more than any others, partly due to some anti Catholic bigotry which is real in many places of USA. At least now, Catholic charities do much good work. I went to a Catholic school, & some nuns were nasty, but not all of them.
As far as the IRA bombings & the C Church, I think the priests were entitled to their opinions of the status of Ireland, as was Ian Paisley, the protestant antagonist.
Yes true but doesn't society hold the Church to a higher moral standard? Set an example as to how people should live together in love and peace? The BBC on the other hand is a media outlet not the spiritual guide to the followers of Jesus Christ worldwide..
BTW the Protestant Church is far from without fault also
I never had that experience and most of us didn't thankfully. My experience with Catholicism and Christinity in general has only been positive. Those that did such evils were a minority. You know state run institutions in the UK and US did the same if not worse. They were shipped abroad in many instances to the colonies where they were continuously abused. You guys only focus on the Church to justify your hatred of it. Unfortunately it was in every western nation religious and secular. I don't know why those in glass houses are throwing stones.
I believe that celibacy drew in weirdos and sickos more then many other religions do.
The IRA are not seen by terrorists by the vast majority of Ireland and world at large including the country you now live in even though many of it's attacks were wrong. This should be evident given the that the political wing of the IRA is now the largest party in Irish history and how It was given Billions In support around the world which allowed it to carry out a sustained campaign for decades. Some of it's attacks were absolutely horrific however and can never be justified but then so was the dropping of the atomic bomb in Japan or the intentional night terrorist bombings of German cities killings hundreds of thousands. The Luftwaffe were just as bad during the Blitz murdering thousands of innocents. Most of the IRA attacks were against military targets evident by the 1200 members of the British security forces killed and thousands more wounded and it's these attacks that can be justified as acts of war just as attacks against the IRA directly are acts of war. Combatants vs combatants. When evil acts such as attacks against civilians are carried out in war whether it be by the British, Americans, French, Irish etc then they should be called out and rebuked as war crimes but attacks against combatants are acts of war that Britain knew very well why it was getting attacked. Britain were the bad guys in Ireland which is why this part of history is something almost all British people never talk about. They would rather it be forgotten and never brought up.
As for the role of the Catholic Church. Officially the Church and ALL the Church's condemned ALL the violence by Republicans, Loyalists and those commited by the British security forces and many of it's policies such as internment. Some clergy however did support the Republican movement and IRA. At the end of the day they were Irishmen witnessing their land being ravaged by what was seen by Many as a foreign oppressor that had no right to be there. The Church's together however were instrumental in bringing about the GFA and keeping a leash on the armed groups. The Unionist people and Nationalist people who were mostly Christian were able to prevent atrocities from spiraling out of control and when such atrocities were commited they were condemned ferociously by the majority of their community forcing the groups to pull back from the brink. When British forces commited atrocites it only strenghtened the IRA. When attacks against combatants were carried out however they were usually celebrated by the side which was most successful as is the case in every war. As for the IRA executing and punishing informants. Think of the IRA as as a more effective French Resistance, the Dutch resistance, Polish etc during WW2. Then you will understand their tactics.
As for the fire and brimstone stories. This was common among many Christian denominations during the 20th century and to be honest I was thankful I never got to experience it. I don't let the corruption of others affect my beliefs anymore than I let the corruption of police officers affect my view on the Police and the Justice system. We all know these people acted wrongly even if they meant well in some cases such as trying to scare children from doing evil. I was thankful for growing up when Philosophy was championed again once more in the Church and such fear tactics disappeared. Today it has went almost to the other extreme where many clergy in the Church are trying to promote what is known as Wokeism. There will ALWAYS be a struggle between good and evil and that struggle in the Church is where you would expect to find it at it's fiercest if it was in any way the road to truth. It doesn't put me off as this has ALWAYS existed. Judas betrayed Jesus, Peter denied him three times and Thomas doubted him. And these were people who walked and talked with our Lord himself nevermind those today who often forget their role and get swept up in vices that consume them. None of us are without Sin
My beliefs mostly stem from the Philosophical reasons for God's existence and history of Christ and his Church. As J.R.R describes Christianity, the true myth that works in us the same as all the others with the tremendous difference that it really happened. It is the fulfillment of all the myths. The only individuals we look to as an example of Christ, his Church and it's teachings are the Saints
So you're suggesting some similarity between the Nazi occupied countries of Europe and the situation in N.I. ?
The British Army was not an occupying force. It was basically assigned as a peace keeping force to keep two Northern Irish peoples apart from each other. Beirut 1975-90. Civil unrest with religious underpinnings. Had the Army not been present there would probably have been something like a civil war taking into account the nut cases on both sides.
Basically groups that plant bombs in places to kill unsuspecting civilians are cowards You cant excuse the activities of a terrorist group using WW2 as an example
When evil men do evil deeds then good men must step forward and do some evil to destroy that evil. That was World War 2. Just a thought
Last edited by James Austen; 02-29-2024 at 07:45 PM..
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