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The majority of the EU really doesn't care about the border they just want it controlled. If the Backdrop was revert to a hard border that would work for them and not tie in the UK.
It is Ireland who signed the GFA not the EU and unsuprisingly care a great deal as to what the final arrangements are. A hard border is completely unacceptable to them hence the current impass.
You mistake my statement.
Without the EU, the Irish border would operate under the GFA.
Since EU law overrules Irish law on borders, the departure of the UK demands the Irish enforce the EU Customs area border, violating the GFA This requires the EU to try to push that border outwards. No EU no problem.
The Irish are the victims of the EU Customs area, thus the Irish will be required per EU law to enforce that border, barring alternatives. Thus nothing to do with Irelands wishes.
Without the EU, the Irish border would operate under the GFA.
Since EU law overrules Irish law on borders, the departure of the UK demands the Irish enforce the EU Customs area border, violating the GFA This requires the EU to try to push that border outwards. No EU no problem.
The Irish are the victims of the EU Customs area, thus the Irish will be required per EU law to enforce that border, barring alternatives. Thus nothing to do with Irelands wishes.
Park thar for a moment and answer this
What's the point of prioritising immigration control if you ( the UK) don't feel the need to erect a proper border between northern Ireland - the UK and the EU?
Many brexiteers claim that only the EU cares to see a hard border on the island of Ireland, this contradicts one of the key motives for brexit in the first place
What's the point of prioritising immigration control if you ( the UK) don't feel the need to erect a proper border between northern Ireland - the UK and the EU?
Many brexiteers claim that only the EU cares to see a hard border on the island of Ireland, this contradicts one of the key motives for brexit in the first place
In your opinion, the common opinion I've seen expressed is that the EU is primarily an undemocratic organization, that is not acting in the best interests of the UK. We can debate what those interests are, but that's the common opinion I've seen expressed.
Other than the border to Northern Ireland, the rest of the UK has a rather large moat that prevents illegal immigration. Further, immigration from non-EU countries is unaffected by the UK's status in the EU. The only complaint I've seen is refugees who are violating their status in the EU, attempting to cross from the Eastern EU to France, Germany, Low Countries and UK and claim their refugee status (see the EU laws on claiming refugee status, the claimant must claim at the country of entry to the EU), and the EU parliament is doing nothing about this, perhaps because the points of entry are already generating huge friction, like Italy, Greece and Eastern Europe.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by a proper border anyway, neither the UK nor Eire are part of the Schengen area, and we're required (per EU law) to present passports when needed, similarly EU citizens are required by law to present passports when needed in Eire and the UK. Isn't that a hard border? Or do you mean a border like the Maginot line?
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by a proper border anyway, neither the UK nor Eire are part of the Schengen area, and we're required (per EU law) to present passports when needed, similarly EU citizens are required by law to present passports when needed in Eire and the UK. Isn't that a hard border? Or do you mean a border like the Maginot line?
Ireland and the UK are currently in a customs union. Once that changes ignoring the EU they either have to put up a border to maintain their own sovereignty or change their regs to match the UK. Throw in the requirement for an open border through the GFA and that with EU membership they can't change their regs even if they wanted to and you have the current impass.
The transitional deal is agreed bar the backdrop but it doesn't matter how happy the rest of the EU is with it - if the border arrangements are not agreed Ireland ain't going to sign it.
What's the point of prioritising immigration control if you ( the UK) don't feel the need to erect a proper border between northern Ireland - the UK and the EU?
Many Brexiteers claim that only the EU cares to see a hard border on the island of Ireland, this contradicts one of the key motives for brexit in the first place
Because Ireland isn't a source of mass migration to the UK, or at least hasn't been for a long time now. If the whole of Ireland migrated to the UK right this second they still wouldn't outnumber the current immigrant population here.
It's the same premise which leads to the US wanting to build a wall with Mexico but barely more than a line in the dirt with Canada, the problem border is the one in the south.
Because Ireland isn't a source of mass migration to the UK, or at least hasn't been for a long time now. If the whole of Ireland migrated to the UK right this second they still wouldn't outnumber the current immigrant population here.
It's the same premise which leads to the US wanting to build a wall with Mexico but barely more than a line in the dirt with Canada, the problem border is the one in the south.
What's to stop romanians reaching England via the Republic of Ireland?
Post brexit, you still have a leaky border where someone flies to Dublin and hops on a bus to Belfast
What's to stop romanians reaching England via the Republic of Ireland?
Post brexit, you still have a leaky border where someone flies to Dublin and hops on a bus to Belfast
We're talking about tiny numbers here, certainly not enough to endanger the border agreement. Moving to the UK via Ireland will be a long, convoluted route for a mainland European. To get from NI to the rest of the UK you still need to provide identification. Getting from Ireland to England is no easier than getting from France to England.
EU residents have much easier options open to them. Why would a Romanian cross into the UK to live a precarious life as an illegal immigrant when they are entitled to reside and work in Ireland, alongside any other country within the bloc?
We're talking about tiny numbers here, certainly not enough to endanger the border agreement. Moving to the UK via Ireland will be a long, convoluted route for a mainland European. To get from NI to the rest of the UK you still need to provide identification. Getting from Ireland to England is no easier than getting from France to England.
EU residents have much easier options open to them. Why would a Romanian cross into the UK to live a precarious life as an illegal immigrant when they are entitled to reside and work in Ireland, alongside any other country within the bloc?
Once you land in Dublin and then drive or walk up to northern Ireland, you are in the UK and there is nothing to stop you going to England, you talk of still needing to provide I. D. The DUP would have a fit if they thought Northern Ireland was subject to any change from the rest of the UK, post brexit, the open border between northern Ireland and the EU will be a magnet
Nature abhors a vacuum and current "tiny numbers" will multiply, its all change post brexit and your leaky border will blow a hole in your "control our borders" slogan
Once you land in Dublin and then drive or walk up to northern Ireland, you are in the UK and there is nothing to stop you going to England, you talk of still needing to provide I. D. The DUP would have a fit if they thought Northern Ireland was subject to any change from the rest of the UK, post brexit, the open border between northern Ireland and the EU will be a magnet
Nature abhors a vacuum and current "tiny numbers" will multiply
When people complain about the numbers from the EU, the numbers thrown around tend to be 6/7 figures. The type of numbers that need serious consideration in terms of planning infrastructure and whatnot. The numbers that would come through your proposed route are statistically irrelevant. Going from Dublin where you can work legally, to Belfast where you are an illegal alien, is not a tempting prospect for most right minded people. If someone was desperate couldn't they just fly to the UK and overstay their visit? There won't be significant barriers to prevent EU nationals from coming here as visitors.
There's a reason why this is never brought up in the political debate, because it's irrelevant.
Last edited by PossiblyIndecisive; 02-10-2019 at 11:38 AM..
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