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Old 01-03-2013, 12:39 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,789 posts, read 10,703,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
SEE THIS (from this thread):
Yes:

"From their beginnings until the twentieth century, cities have been pestholes. In fact, only when towns became big cities did massive die-offs become a regular part of human life.

When farmers and villagers started crowding into cities, this immunologically virgin mass offered a feast to germs lurking in domesticated animals, wastes, filth, and scavengers."


Thats a reference to urbanization from the Bronze Age through the Classical era, which is when most of our herd diseases evolved.

Though I would suggest there die offs before that, when famine hit a particular region, due to changes in climate, or a disease hitting an important food source. They may not have been massive, simply because human populations were not massive.

There are some people who would like to go back to a neolithic (or even paleolithic) lifestyle.

I don't think that has much to do with whether, say, we in 2013 can learn from, say, the streetcar suburbs of the 1920s. Which I think was the intended topic of this thread.

Last edited by nei; 01-03-2013 at 12:58 PM..
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,247 posts, read 26,214,003 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718 View Post
Some, but not most. I feel zip car is a better option in these communities far from subway stations. Most in the city however, do not need a car and in most cases the benefit a car would provide is negligible considering all factors.
I'm talking about people who already have cars. Why would I take transit to another neighborhood in Brooklyn if I can drive to it?
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:59 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,980 posts, read 102,527,356 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
Yes:

"From their beginnings until the twentieth century, cities have been pestholes. In fact, only when towns became big cities did massive die-offs become a regular part of human life.

When farmers and villagers started crowding into cities, this immunologically virgin mass offered a feast to germs lurking in domesticated animals, wastes, filth, and scavengers."


Thats a reference to urbanization from the Bronze Age through the Classical era, which is when most of our herd diseases evolved.

Though I would suggest there die offs before that, when famine hit a particular region, due to changes in climate, or a disease hitting an important food source. They may not have been massive, simply because human populations were not massive.

There are some people who would like to go back to a neolithic (or even paleolithic) lifestyle.

I don't think that has much to do with whether, say, we in 2013 can learn from, say, the streetcar suburbs of the 1920s. Which I think was the intended topic of this thread.
Apparently you're unfamiliar with this event:

Great Migration (African American) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Great Migration was the movement of 6 million African Americans out of the rural Southern United States to the Northeast, Midwest, and West for most of the 20th century. Some historians differentiate between the first Great Migration (19101930), numbering about 1.6 million migrants who left mostly rural areas to migrate to northern and midwestern industrial cities, and, after a lull during the Great Depression, a Second Great Migration (1940 to 1970), in which 5 million or more people moved, including many to California and other western cities.[1]

It has never been clear just what we are talking about on this thread, a comparison to the 1920s or a comparison to some mythical 2013 city where people don't drive cars, or something else.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:05 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,921,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
A
It has never been clear just what we are talking about on this thread, a comparison to the 1920s or a comparison to some mythical 2013 city where people don't drive cars, or something else.
The OP never came back but my interpretation was a city built like a 1920s city but he said without all the bad stuff, so modern medicine. A city where some drove cars but it wasn't built with the assumption most drove and depending on the city, most didn't.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:25 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,980 posts, read 102,527,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The OP never came back but my interpretation was a city built like a 1920s city but he said without all the bad stuff, so modern medicine. A city where some drove cars but it wasn't built with the assumption most drove and depending on the city, most didn't.
Well, people would still have to have some means of transit, unless they never wanted to leave their own neighborhoods. Never go to a sporting event, to the hospital, or even the best doctor for what their problem is, etc.

"Pre-automobile" to me means prior to say, 1920. You have to take the bad with the good.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:36 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,921,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, people would still have to have some means of transit, unless they never wanted to leave their own neighborhoods. Never go to a sporting event, to the hospital, or even the best doctor for what their problem is, etc.
Well, obviously. Public transit existed.

Quote:
"Pre-automobile" to me means prior to say, 1920. You have to take the bad with the good.
"Pre-automobile" to me means prior to when automobiles become the dominant transportation mode, and before cities started planning for cars not before automobiles existed. The year this happened depends on the location and in a few it never completely happened.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,247 posts, read 26,214,003 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The OP never came back but my interpretation was a city built like a 1920s city but he said without all the bad stuff, so modern medicine. A city where some drove cars but it wasn't built with the assumption most drove and depending on the city, most didn't.
Basically asking about a city that exists in the present day that never accommodated cars.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:55 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,980 posts, read 102,527,356 times
Reputation: 33045
Well, prior to the 1920s or so, people used horses for personal transportation. That's what I meant by saying that people will still need transit. I should have been more specific. People seem to like personal transportation, "on demand" so to speak.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:06 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,789 posts, read 10,703,951 times
Reputation: 2513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Apparently you're unfamiliar with this event:

Great Migration (African American) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Great Migration was the movement of 6 million African Americans out of the rural Southern United States to the Northeast, Midwest, and West for most of the 20th century. Some historians differentiate between the first Great Migration (19101930), numbering about 1.6 million migrants who left mostly rural areas to migrate to northern and midwestern industrial cities, and, after a lull during the Great Depression, a Second Great Migration (1940 to 1970), in which 5 million or more people moved, including many to California and other western cities.[1]
.

urbanization continued after the bronze age, but thats not relevant. By the time you refer to, herd diseases were widespread in places like the americna rural south.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:37 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,980 posts, read 102,527,356 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
urbanization continued after the bronze age, but thats not relevant. By the time you refer to, herd diseases were widespread in places like the americna rural south.
Link.

I'm not sure why you're so disbelieving that Tb was a problem in large cities in the US until well into the 1950s. That just goes against the historical fact.
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