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(this info was previously posted but got buried in another thread so I wanted to make a new thread specific to this subject)
We currently live in a semi-urban area on the fringe of Boston. We have two small children, and many of our friends have move to the suburbs in the last few years. We have stuck it out, and when we go visit our friends in the suburbs we always come back home, glad we live where we do, but also realizing its not for everyone. For so many, it seems to be a foregone conclusion that suburbia is best for kids, so here is a challenge to that:
1. Its quieter here. Sounds crazy, right? One catch - as long as you live on a side street. Almost everyone uses a quiet reel lawn mower and week-whacking takes all of 4 minutes per week. Contrast this with the relatively open plains of suburbia where the noises of construction and gas powered lawn mowers travel far and wide especially on Saturday afternoons. In dense areas the homes also create significant noise insulation.
2. Independence for young teens. The 13-17 year olds in our neighborhood have an amazing level of freedom. They can walk to Harvard Square, or several other squares with their friends. They can walk to the train and go into Boston. Because of the high density of children, they can walk to the homes of most of their school friends.
3. Exposure to the world for toddlers. The 1-4 year olds tend to get out more and see more without having to be strapped into a car every single time they leave the house. When you can throw them into a stroller and walk a few blocks to everything you need, they get exposed to the world much more. As a quick example, this Saturday we walked to the local Winter Market, then to the local butcher shop. Sunday we walked to lunch and then to the natural history museum.
4. Safety. Think I am crazy again? What's the #1 killer of teens? Car accidents. Teens that can walk are much less likely to be driving a car when they turn 17-18.
5. Social interaction. We can walk to 5 playgrounds from our house. Every one of them is full of families with kids every afternoon. Families often make an afternoon of it and bring lunch. Suburban playgrounds often tend to be empty, as the kids tend to play independently on the swingset in the back yard. There is a year round farmers market we can walk to, and in warmer months there is a fun kid-friendly street festival almost every weekend.
6. Diversity. I love the mix of people here. The other parents in our preschool have mostly non-corporate jobs. They are architects, non-profit managers and founders, artists, jewelry makers, and faculty at local universities. They tend to be people who pursued their interests in life as opposed to chasing money on the corporate ladder. Contrast this with the suburbs where it seems almost everyone has a corporate management job.
Benefits of suburban vs semi-urban:
1. More room to roam - yards, and sometimes even woods to explore. I find that this is especially beneficial to boys from the ages of 5-11. After age 12 the wears off and the isolation and car dependence of the quiet cul-de-sac kicks in. My experience with girls is that they tend to be fine with smaller yards at any age. Outdoor space is critical, but mose suburban yards are much bigger than they need to be for kids.
2. Perception of Schools - High scoring schools makes parents feel better. However if you believe the overhwelming data showing that student scores are driven almost exclusively by SES and parental imvolvement, regardless of the school, this holds less water.
I think a LOT of parents would love to live where you live. I bet it's not cheap, though. That's a factor, too -- you want to live somewhere like Cambridge, it comes at a price. But yes, I'd take that over a quiet, boring neighborhood any day, and think it would be a great fit for our family.
Yes, I remember this thread from last time. I'm glad you've found a place you like. My comments in blue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by semiurbanite
(this info was previously posted but got buried in another thread so I wanted to make a new thread specific to this subject)
We currently live in a semi-urban area on the fringe of Boston. We have two small children, and many of our friends have move to the suburbs in the last few years. We have stuck it out, and when we go visit our friends in the suburbs we always come back home, glad we live where we do, but also realizing its not for everyone. For so many, it seems to be a foregone conclusion that suburbia is best for kids, so here is a challenge to that:
1. Its quieter here. Sounds crazy, right? One catch - as long as you live on a side street. Almost everyone uses a quiet reel lawn mower and week-whacking takes all of 4 minutes per week. Contrast this with the relatively open plains of suburbia where the noises of construction and gas powered lawn mowers travel far and wide especially on Saturday afternoons. In dense areas the homes also create significant noise insulation.
I don't know how much time you've spent in suburbia on a Saturday afternoon. The idea that everyone is out mowing their lawn at the same time, or conversely, in staggered times all day long, is erroneous. If you live in a developed neighborhood, there is no construction noise nearby, either.
2. Independence for young teens. The 13-17 year olds in our neighborhood have an amazing level of freedom. They can walk to Harvard Square, or several other squares with their friends. They can walk to the train and go into Boston. Because of the high density of children, they can walk to the homes of most of their school friends.
Having raised two kids to adulthood, I'd be hesitant about letting a 13-14 year old go into a large city w/o an adult. You can get to the city on public transportation from most suburbs. By 15-16, they may be old enough to do that. I don't remember that mine ever did. Believe it or not, there is plenty for teens to do independently in most suburbs w/o going into the city. You're lucky if there's such a high density of kids that they can walk to their friends' homes. My kids could do that too. There are usually lots of kids in the suburbs.
3. Exposure to the world for toddlers. The 1-4 year olds tend to get out more and see more without having to be strapped into a car every single time they leave the house. When you can throw them into a stroller and walk a few blocks to everything you need, they get exposed to the world much more. As a quick example, this Saturday we walked to the local Winter Market, then to the local butcher shop. Sunday we walked to lunch and then to the natural history museum.
Toddlers need stimulation, yes, but they can get it in many ways. Since you have to take them with you whenever you go out, or hire a baby sitter, which most of us can't afford to do every time we need to run an errand, they get plenty of exposure to grocery stores and the like. You can make an excursion into "the city" and take them to the natural history museum, the zoo, etc.
4. Safety. Think I am crazy again? What's the #1 killer of teens? Car accidents. Teens that can walk are much less likely to be driving a car when they turn 17-18.
I doubt it. Post a link.
5. Social interaction. We can walk to 5 playgrounds from our house. Every one of them is full of families with kids every afternoon. Families often make an afternoon of it and bring lunch. Suburban playgrounds often tend to be empty, as the kids tend to play independently on the swingset in the back yard. There is a year round farmers market we can walk to, and in warmer months there is a fun kid-friendly street festival almost every weekend.
Again, how much time have you spent in a suburb on a warm afternoon? Our local parks tend to be quite busy most of the time. It helps that in your neighborhood there are all these people who don't seem to have traditional "day" jobs. In neighborhoods where most parents work, city or suburb, kids aren't in the parks so much during the day. It's also nice to be able to send your kids out to play in the backyard when you're busy. Often, the neighbor kids would join my kids in our yard, or mine would go to theirs.
6. Diversity. I love the mix of people here. The other parents in our preschool have mostly non-corporate jobs. They are architects, non-profit managers and founders, artists, jewelry makers, and faculty at local universities. They tend to be people who pursued their interests in life as opposed to chasing money on the corporate ladder. Contrast this with the suburbs where it seems almost everyone has a corporate management job.
Maybe in Boston. Not everywhere. Probably not in Boston, either.
Benefits of suburban vs semi-urban:
1. More room to roam - yards, and sometimes even woods to explore. I find that this is especially beneficial to boys from the ages of 5-11. After age 12 the wears off and the isolation and car dependence of the quiet cul-de-sac kicks in. My experience with girls is that they tend to be fine with smaller yards at any age. Outdoor space is critical, but mose suburban yards are much bigger than they need to be for kids.
2. Perception of Schools - High scoring schools makes parents feel better. However if you believe the overhwelming data showing that student scores are driven almost exclusively by SES and parental imvolvement, regardless of the school, this holds less water.
I'll comment on these two together. It's called damning with faint praise. We all know how to do that.
4. Safety. Think I am crazy again? What's the #1 killer of teens? Car accidents. Teens that can walk are much less likely to be driving a car when they turn 17-18.
I doubt it. Post a link.
Unsure of which one you doubt, but for the first, here's a link:
Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for U.S. teens. In 2010, seven teens ages 16 to 19 died every day from motor vehicle injuries.
Quote:
I don't know how much time you've spent in suburbia on a Saturday afternoon. The idea that everyone is out mowing their lawn at the same time, or conversely, in staggered times all day long, is erroneous.
I've spent plenty. Exaggeration perhaps, but at least in my parent's neighborhoods, it definitely sounds like it many weekends.
You can doubt it all you want - but OP is dead on balls accurate (yes that is a scientific term) - auto accidents are number one killer of teens - there isn't even a close second.
I know the facts about accidents. I'm questioning if these kids who live in an "inner-ring suburb" like the OPs are "much less likely" to be driving at 17-18. Then there's a question of just what "much less" is! Ha, ha, me and my definitions! Heck, I grew up in a "bus suburb" that was also very walkable, and most of us couldn't wait till we could drive. But that was then. . .
My neighborhood is usually very quiet. There's not *too* much lawn-mowing happening on Saturday/Sunday.
Yes, kids grow up much more independent and capable, far less bored, far less likely to get into the kind of trouble you get into when you're a bored kid, far more cultured, far more aware, and far more interested and ultimately far more interesting. And as for safety, there is no more dangerous place in American for a teen than an auto dependent suburb - very deadly. Parents don't do their kids any favors by raising them in the suburbs for safety reasons - absolutely the worst possible place.
Having raised two kids to adulthood, I'd be hesitant about letting a 13-14 year old go into a large city w/o an adult. You can get to the city on public transportation from most suburbs. By 15-16, they may be old enough to do that.
From many suburbs, you may not be able to walk to public transportation to the city. And either way, often much more cumbersome. That's certainly true of the outer suburbs of Boston, where few would be in walking distance from a train station. Ditto for me.
I think it was 14 for me when I was allowed into the city without an adult (though not by myself).
I know the facts about accidents. I'm questioning if these kids who live in an "inner-ring suburb" like the OPs are "much less likely" to be driving at 17-18. Heck, I grew up in a "bus suburb" that was also very walkable, and most of us couldn't wait till we could drive. But that was then. . .
My neighborhood is usually very quiet. There's not *too* much lawn-mowing happening on Saturday/Sunday.
In my experience they do / are. Of course an inner ring suburb in Boston is much different (i.e. better transit access) than an inner-ring suburb in most every other US city.
Most of the kids in Brighton (part of the city but for all intents and purposes about the same urban setting as Cambridge) that I lived around did not drive cars. They took the T, in fact the most annoying riders were consistently the teenagers. I live in a more inner-city neighborhood now but there are plenty of kids here too, perhaps because of the proximity to the high school (which they walk to).
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