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The people who are walking/biking to the grocery stores probably don't eat 50% of their meals at home.
I can think of several, though yes, they're single or at least childless.
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If you're cooking dinner for a family of four 5-7 days a week, you need a lot more groceries than you do if you cook once "in a blue moon" to impress a date. If you have kids to get to music lessons, sports practice, etc, it's highly inconvenient to do w/o a car, no matter where you live.
Eh maybe parts of New York City. Parking is difficult enough in those parts, a car wouldn't have much benefit anyway. But would the family members need a car all the time? But regardless, yes a car has more advantages for families in most places. Would it practical for childless adults to get around without a car and without too much hassle? Could a teenager access most of the town easily?
I can think of several, though yes, they're single or at least childless.
Eh maybe parts of New York City. Parking is difficult enough in those parts, a car wouldn't have much benefit anyway. But would the family members need a car all the time? But regardless, yes a car has more advantages for families in most places. Would it practical for childless adults to get around without a car and without too much hassle? Could a teenager access most of the town easily?
What town are you talking about? Louisville? You can get around pretty well w/o a car, especially if you live on the flats. There are several hills that are quite steep. Also depends on where you work. Most people who live here do not work in Louisville. It's easy to get to Boulder/Denver on the RTD. If you work in the burbs, it's a little harder. My friend's husband has been part of a car-pool for about 30 years now. I realize that's not car-free, but it's car-light. Sure, teenagers can access most of the town easily; it's not that big. They can also take the bus into Boulder or Denver for entertainment. Teens tend to do more car-sharing than adults.
Or maybe others got a different conclusion than you.
By living in the burbs, visiting others. How practical is it to not use a car in most suburbs? Would be very limiting for most and/or inconvenient or time consuming? I think I remember you mentioning parking as a "necessity" and cars needed for "modern living". If they are where you live, how is it not car dependent?
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Originally Posted by Katiana
What the hey? Where are you getting this from, other than NU rantings by people who never go to the suburbs, that you have to be car dependent if you live in the burbs?
It comes from growing up in the suburbs and spending half my life in the suburbs. I ran away from that and into urban life which I love so much more, but as I get older I have found I want something that is more like inner city neighborhoods that still offer single family homes, something I will be able to get in Portland, but it isn't that common with cities in America.
Well, well, well! We're not supposed to dredge up old posts or threads, now are we? I seriously doubt that I said the latter, possibly the former b/c people are seriously NOT going to give up their cars b/c the urbanists want them to. How many people on this forum are totally car-less? I think not using a car would be very limiting/inconvenient for most people in the city living a family lifestyle. The people who are walking/biking to the grocery stores probably don't eat 50% of their meals at home. If you're cooking dinner for a family of four 5-7 days a week, you need a lot more groceries than you do if you cook once "in a blue moon" to impress a date. If you have kids to get to music lessons, sports practice, etc, it's highly inconvenient to do w/o a car, no matter where you live.
Currently I am living a car free life and have managed just fine for the past year. When I lived in Portland, I owned a car but it wasn't my primary mode of transportation because I had options and I used those options. Not everyone is a family of four, heck, my wife and I only plan on having one child so we will be a family of three which is much more manageable.
Bet you are also car dependent and couldn't survive without a vehicle.
Actually, we are not. For starters, my wife has a vision disability and is not allowed to drive. Luckily, there are main public transit routes within a 3 minute walk from the house, and a pharmacy, two banks, several restaurants, pub, grocery store, major shopping mall, video rental, veterinarian, European deli and two convenience stores all within a reasonable walking distance. I do own a Ford F150 pickup, but the cost of gas is negligible considering the close proximity we have to everything we need.
I suppose that kind of flies in the face of the "subburbs are killing the planet" foolishness.
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Originally Posted by darkeconomist
If you want to talk about reality, then let's face it. Being car dependent is costly. To the individual, there are significant costs of purchasing, maintaining and using a car, estimates for which run up to 30% of income.
Where do people come up with this nonsense? 30% of their income? LOL. Maybe if those individuals are broke students or minimum wage slaves.
My F150 is 11 years old and hardly costs anything to maintain and insure. It was paid off long ago. If that 30% figure is accurate (which it isn't by a long shot), these people should be doing their homework and buying a better quality vehicle.
Actually, we are not. For starters, my wife has a vision disability and is not allowed to drive. Luckily, there are main public transit routes within a 3 minute walk from the house, and a pharmacy, two banks, several restaurants, pub, grocery store, major shopping mall, video rental, veterinarian, European deli and two convenience stores all within a reasonable walking distance. I do own a Ford F150 pickup, but the cost of gas is negligible considering the close proximity we have to everything we need.
I suppose that kind of flies in the face of the "subburbs are killing the planet" foolishness.
Not really. It seems as though you either live in the kind of suburb that urbanlife78 is promoting, (like a small town with a walkable, commercial center) or happen to live near this stuff in an otherwise car-dependent suburb.
Not really. It seems as though you either live in the kind of suburb that urbanlife78 is promoting, (like a small town with a walkable, commercial center) or happen to live near this stuff in an otherwise car-dependent suburb.
Oh, come on! Every time someone posts that their suburb is not "car-dependent", the urbanists come on and say, "that's an exception". Maybe there are way more "exceptions" than you guys are aware of.
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I have lived 3/4 of my life, 48 years, in towns/cities outside of large cities, e.g. Pittsburgh and Denver. I have never felt I was "car dependent". I never drove 10 miles to buy a quart of milk, the classic slur, nor did my parents when I was a kid.
It comes from growing up in the suburbs and spending half my life in the suburbs. I ran away from that and into urban life which I love so much more, but as I get older I have found I want something that is more like inner city neighborhoods that still offer single family homes, something I will be able to get in Portland, but it isn't that common with cities in America.
As I said, I have spent 48 years living in places that are more or less suburban, e.g. outside of large cities, and I didn't see that.
You can get a single family house in Denver. In fact, that was listed as one of the advantages of Denver in 5280 magazine. I don't have the link at my fingertips.
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Originally Posted by urbanlife78
Currently I am living a car free life and have managed just fine for the past year. When I lived in Portland, I owned a car but it wasn't my primary mode of transportation because I had options and I used those options. Not everyone is a family of four, heck, my wife and I only plan on having one child so we will be a family of three which is much more manageable.
I would love to be a fly on the wall when you have that baby!
Oh, come on! Every time someone posts that their suburb is not "car-dependent", the urbanists come on and say, "that's an exception". Maybe there are way more "exceptions" than you guys are aware of.
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I have lived 3/4 of my life, 48 years, in towns/cities outside of large cities, e.g. Pittsburgh and Denver. I have never felt I was "car dependent". I never drove 10 miles to buy a quart of milk, the classic slur, nor did my parents when I was a kid.
Non-car dependent suburbs are fairly rare in my experience, and since I used to get around without a car for a while, I can usually notice. I've tried to read up or view on streetview more walkable suburbs. Either:
1) Wherever you lived in the country is extremely different from what I've seen. Ok, but not everywhere is like that. I doubt suburban Pittsburgh is less car dependent than a lot of the suburbs of big Northeastern suburbs, judging by your comments on the lack of sidewalks. Suburban Albany (most of it, not all) seems obviously car dependent
2) You have a very different idea of car dependent than me.
For Long Island, for example, it's fairly difficult for residents to commute to suburban jobs (a few corridors and the western, most "urban" part may be an exception).
My suburb is extremely car-dependent. You can not do anything without getting in the car.
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