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Perhaps. I guess the take away is, it depends on store type if it is beneficial. In my book, if it is the type of store people need to go to often, it is good to have foot traffic. (I.e. a grocery store with lots of repeat visitors gets good turnover of product.)
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I think it is best to accomidate whatever mode people might use to get to your store as much as possible but somethings are going to favor the auto more than the pedestrian. Large stores often need large parking lots and some stores are more likely to have people running in and buying product than others. It also depends on the environment. If there is no way to get to the store by walking, it makes no sense to build the store to accommodate pedestrians who can't get there.
Yes, upstate New York is different from the Midwest, especially the upper Midwest, say from Chicago north. It may not look that different on paper, but it feels much different.
As cold as it has been, though I think the Polar Vortex made it feel as cold as it can in the midwest, I have to say the upper middle part of the country receives some extremely bitter cold air. Living in Spokane for a while, in the winter we would get that freezing dry arctic air that would just chill to the bone. Typically the NYC metro never gets that same kind of cold air.
If they want to walk to where they shop, they should have the right to. This is a country based on rights, isn't it?
And though the "everyone uses cars" principle works in the suburbs, it doesn't work quite so well in city limits, where people prefer to walk or take transit everywhere. Strip malls are wholly out of place in dense and even partially dense areas.
Besides, what about the people who live within 2 miles of the strip mall, rather than 20? Those people are not only much more likely to use that strip mall, they can easily walk or bike to it. Of course, said strip mall is designed in a manner that makes it impossible to actually walk across the parking lot to the businesses themselves, thus discouraging shoppers there and denying them potential business.
Additionally, strip malls not only don't look near as nice as their walkable counterparts, they take up massive space. They are an eyesore. Let me ask you, which looks better: this or this? One can fit much more business without taking up near as much space. Also, did I mention that these example are right across the street from each other? So you can get a proper glimpse at how that strip mall (like many strip malls) destroy the urban fabric that surrounds them.
I don't believe there's anything in the US constitution about any "right to walk to shopping". Maybe in your state constitution. I think most shoppers at strip malls either live or work within two miles of said mall. It's the regional malls that get the customers coming some distance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself
No they aren't they are in strip malls because that's where they go. Malls are for specific businesses for a specific group of people, Joe Dirt Insurance is not going to the mall or a pricey downtown office, they are going to an affordable unit, which is largely in a bland strip mall in most of this country.
I'm not talking so much about "Joe Dirt Insurance" though I agree with you there, Joe D. isn't likely to rent a space in a regional enclosed mall. But look at the picture in the OP. There's a local Chinese restaurant. (At least it looks local.) IME, there are lots of small restaurants and coffee shops in strip malls.
I have also seen similar results in other studies in other areas, LA, SF, and perhaps even Denver. As well as London. It seems to hold up pretty well across lots of different areas.
OK, I got the link to open. As usual with AC, the research doesn't bear out their over-reaching conclusions. According to the graphs, spending per trip is higher by auto drivers in every situation except bars, and even then, it's higher than transit or bike commuters' spending. I guess no one wants to get a BWI (biking while intoxicated), and maybe it's hard to get on the right bus after spending a night in a bar. Dunno, I don't do either (drinking or riding transit) very often. It's actually pretty close for everyone but walkers at convenience stores, with driving and biking about the same.
Trips taken to the grocery store and convenience store per month are the highest for the walkers. Walkers spend more at the grocery store than bikers and transit riders, but less than drivers. (All self-report)
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 02-13-2014 at 09:28 AM..
Though strip malls are quite ubiquitous in Los Angeles and probably one of the things it is best known for along with traffic and palm trees, they are quite different in form and function than the ones being shown in this thread.
Typically the strip malls are much smaller in nature, and sometimes are more like traditional "main street" commercial which has just been pushed back behind a 20-30 space parking lot. Often they actually pack in more businesses than typical street facing retail, and about 1/3 to 1/2 of the time they are two+ stories. They don't usually feel all that sterile, and get a decent chunk of business from foot traffic. However, they are hideous as it gets, and will stop pickier "urbanists" from walking to them because it has been found that people prefer to walk more in areas that look walkable.
(also notice that the retail areas around these two ex strip malls are mostly street-facing "main street" retail)
Now, like I said before these are much more compact than the other examples of strip malls in this thread. It would be pretty cool to develop a multi-story parking garage on some of these really huge "strip malls" (I think some of these examples are pushing the definition of strip mall and veer more into big-box super center territory), using the remaining surface parking area to create a large park. It would be much less expensive then tearing down entire shopping centers and rebuilding them right on the street (seems like a huge waste of resources for a very small gain), plus provides a benefit to the community. Or, if the developer/landlord wants to make more money off of the construction, build more retail in the surface parking lot.
One person's strip mall is another's local shopping.
Not everyone can be in one of the mega destination centers and dense urban centers do not make up most of America.
A place for everything within moderation.
A friend owned a property and wanted to put up a medical building for his practice... city zoning said the land could only be used for retail... so now it is a strip mall with a chinese takeout, subway, pharmacy and drycleaners.
Though strip malls are quite ubiquitous in Los Angeles and probably one of the things it is best known for along with traffic and palm trees, they are quite different in form and function than the ones being shown in this thread.
Typically the strip malls are much smaller in nature, and sometimes are more like traditional "main street" commercial which has just been pushed back behind a 20-30 space parking lot. Often they actually pack in more businesses than typical street facing retail, and about 1/3 to 1/2 of the time they are two+ stories. They don't usually feel all that sterile, and get a decent chunk of business from foot traffic. However, they are hideous as it gets, and will stop pickier "urbanists" from walking to them because it has been found that people prefer to walk more in areas that look walkable.
(also notice that the retail areas around these two ex strip malls are mostly street-facing "main street" retail)
Now, like I said before these are much more compact than the other examples of strip malls in this thread. It would be pretty cool to develop a multi-story parking garage on some of these really huge "strip malls" (I think some of these examples are pushing the definition of strip mall and veer more into big-box super center territory), using the remaining surface parking area to create a large park. It would be much less expensive then tearing down entire shopping centers and rebuilding them right on the street (seems like a huge waste of resources for a very small gain), plus provides a benefit to the community. Or, if the developer/landlord wants to make more money off of the construction, build more retail in the surface parking lot.
There are a number of smaller strip malls here in metro Denver as well. Lots of them have "hole in the wall" type restaurants that can't afford the "high rent" district.
It is when it is like 10F and windy and the store you went to didn't have what you wanted and would need to walk 4 more blocks away from home to get to a store that MIGHT have it which would mean walking back a total of at least 6 blocks. Oh and carry a 5 pound bag of potatoes and a bag of canned goods in the other hand too.
There are a number of smaller strip malls here in metro Denver as well. Lots of them have "hole in the wall" type restaurants that can't afford the "high rent" district.
Tends to vary with the time here. The super strip malls really only took off about maybe 10 years ago here. And likewise, not strictly your more affordable hole in the walls either. Cafe Ravenous or The Kitchen (both fine dining) are located in stip malls. Natomas has Sacramento's best Thai restaurant in a strip mall. There's also a good one in downtown. Natomas just gets the nod because it's a lot cheaper, they're both very good.
And of course, we have to mention the absurdity of how impossible it is to walk across a strip mall. I mean, how does the "Hot Lava, Eeek!" crowd think we get from the car to the strip mall? Given how out of practice at walking we are, I would think that the "Hot Lava, Eeek!" crowd would be better equipped to make such a perilous trek suburbanite who just drives across to go to the bank. Honestly, you'd think we were talking about an expedition to the south pole instead of something most people do on a near daily basis.
And of course, we have to mention the absurdity of how impossible it is to walk across a strip mall. I mean, how does the "Hot Lava, Eeek!" crowd think we get from the car to the strip mall? Given how out of practice at walking we are, I would think that the "Hot Lava, Eeek!" crowd would be better equipped to make such a perilous trek suburbanite who just drives across to go to the bank. Honestly, you'd think we were talking about an expedition to the south pole instead of something most people do on a near daily basis.
While I agree with your point of view, strip malls with large parking lots are not pedestrian friendly. It isn't the cars, more the distance that the pedestrian needs to walk If from the wrong direction or if the store is way in the middle the whole lot. They also sometimes lack a access to a sidewalk and so a pedestrian is going to either dodge cars coming in and out or walk across some landscaping(assume the place has no fence) to get in. That being said the Automobile has been invented and people are not going to build buildings that do not take into consideration the car and sometimes that means buildings that are not pedestrian friendly. I can think of some strip malls I wouldn't care to walk across, thank god I have a car!
And of course, we have to mention the absurdity of how impossible it is to walk across a strip mall.
There are plenty of ways strip malls can making walking difficult. Narrow entrances that force you to walk where cars enter/exit. Worse, if going between strip malls. As mentioned fences and landscaping can force a circuitous path. Or on roads that are hard to cross, the worst case that it's impractical or unsafe to get to the store on the other side of the street.
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