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Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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The railroads would have to expand by hundreds of thousands of miles in order to replace what is currently hauled by truck. The typical freight goes by air or sea to an airport or port, then intermodal yard to be picked up by truck, or go farther inland by train to another intermodal yard or warehouse where it goes to the next destination by truck. Regardless of whether people drive cars, the roads are needed for the trucks. It be hard to convince the many NIMBYs to have more railroads keeping them from crossing the street for 15 minutes, making noise to keep them awake at night, or even taking their homes for a right-of-way. In fact, many areas are already getting protesters upset with the frequency and type of products being shipped by rail. When it comes to light rail, there are still not enough buses to provide service to the stations. Look at the parking shortages in the BART stations, where even with a charge of $2.50-$9 there are not enough spaces.
You guys get long train out west. We rarely have long trains that could block traffic for more than a minute, let alone 15 minutes. Much of the freight in the Northeast is just ship to truck.
Of course it's not going back to the way it was. I, for one, am glad to live without the threat of cholera.
But nursing, like every profession, develops with the accrual of knowledge, of learning by experience and studying the past. In medicine, it's not unheard of to stop prescribing a certain treatment upon later review. Plenty of medicines have gone out of favor for that reason.
So why is it that it's somehow wrong to do that--look at our history and our data and assess the success or failure of a choice--with city planning?
Aren't we all?
Yes, I've had to unlearn some things. Peptic ulcers are no longer caused by personality disorder for one. Likewise, infertility is no longer a psychiatric disease. However, some things are tried and true. Having the patient, in this case the CD Urban Planning posters, accept reality is one such.
From many of these posts here, a lot of cities, including mine, have combined transit systems, cars, buses, light rail, heavy rail, subways in some cases. Nor do I think there was any grand conspiracy to get people out of PT and into their own cars. It was simply more convenient for people to drive their own cars on their own time schedule.
You guys get long train out west. We rarely have long trains that could block traffic for more than a minute, let alone 15 minutes. Much of the freight in the Northeast is just ship to truck.
I will have to count the railroad cars the next time I have to stop for a train and time them.
You guys get long train out west. We rarely have long trains that could block traffic for more than a minute, let alone 15 minutes. Much of the freight in the Northeast is just ship to truck.
There are 15-30 per week Bakken Oil trains (up to 120 cars) going through some of the most crowded areas of NJ on the way to Philly, starting in Bergen County headed south.
Yes, I've had to unlearn some things. Peptic ulcers are no longer caused by personality disorder for one. Likewise, infertility is no longer a psychiatric disease. However, some things are tried and true. Having the patient, in this case the CD Urban Planning posters, accept reality is one such.
But what about what I was specifically asking? What is wrong with the planning profession looking at historical data and historical examples? If the car was a pill to treat an ailment, it would certainly receive a review of its efficacy and side effects. But, for whatever reason, the private car and the socialized roadways those cars rely upon seem to get a free pass, as if they are above reproach.
The railroads would have to expand by hundreds of thousands of miles in order to replace what is currently hauled by truck. The typical freight goes by air or sea to an airport or port, then intermodal yard to be picked up by truck, or go farther inland by train to another intermodal yard or warehouse where it goes to the next destination by truck. Regardless of whether people drive cars, the roads are needed for the trucks. It be hard to convince the many NIMBYs to have more railroads keeping them from crossing the street for 15 minutes, making noise to keep them awake at night, or even taking their homes for a right-of-way.
Freeways already have taken and continue to take a lot of land. Why, in your example, is rail subject to more stringent criticism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140
In fact, many areas are already getting protesters upset with the frequency and type of products being shipped by rail.
The concerns tend to be about diesel, train frequency at crossings (this came up for CASHR on the peninsula), noise, and WHAT is being transported.
Trains can be electrified. Historically, there have been electrified freight railroads. And doing this is a ton more centralized than forcing emissions requirements on the trucking industry. So that takes care of the fumes.
Trucks, too, take up a lot of road space. But that tends to be less noticeable because it is so common. This is based on the idea that we notice things that are unusual. But get on 880 or I-5 and it becomes immediately apparent how much space trucks take up.
And the WHAT that's being shipped, that draws protesters regardless of shipping mode. Shipping crude by truck or tube is not less controversial than by train. Often, the issue seems to be visibility. Trains draw a lot of attention. They're big and noisy things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140
When it comes to light rail, there are still not enough buses to provide service to the stations. Look at the parking shortages in the BART stations, where even with a charge of $2.50-$9 there are not enough spaces.
I think I don't understand you point. Yes, BART is a really popular regional service and, due to generally low densities in the SFBA (outside of downtown SF or Oakland), the first-mile question is answered by driving. To me, that's just evidence of our built form and of the popularity of BART. I don't know what the quoted means as a response to what I said.
An 80 car coal train is around a mile and a quarter long.
I've always been impressed with the torque and traction those locomotives can produce. But there's a reason rail gradients are kept so low.
But, yes, heaven help you if you get stuck at a crossing at the head of a coal train. You're in for a wait.
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