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Old 06-10-2013, 07:11 PM
Location: Michigan
2,198 posts, read 2,239,356 times
Reputation: 2091


Originally Posted by user_id View Post
7th Day Adventist tend to eat healthier whether or not they are vegetarian, so a lot of the confounding variables are dealt with when you study this population.
On average they eat healthier and have healthier lifestyles, but like with any a group there's a large variance in how closely they adhere. The church recommends a vegetarian diet, yet only about 35% of them are vegetarians. The church recommends no tobacco, coffee, tea, etc. and yet many of them still use these.

Originally Posted by user_id View Post
People always point out the possible confounding variables, as if researchers aren't aware of them, but there are studies that explicitly control for them as well. These studies, at least most of them, still have vegetarians living longer.
People always point out confounding variables in these types of studies because these types of studies are rife with them. Whether or not researchers are aware of them has nothing to do with how they impact data. Simply being aware of the problem does not magically make it disappear.

This study did not control for the quality of foods eaten, which is understandable since it would be near impossible to do so with this number of participants, but it is nevertheless a major limitation. This study had 70,000 participants and used a single survey to place everyone into 5 categories with no attention paid to what people are eating beyond whether or not they ate meat, fish, eggs, or dairy at the beginning of the study.

It is well known that omnivores are more likely to smoke cigarettes, be lower socioeconomic status, and exercise less compared to vegetarians, so it's hardly a stretch to think that they're also more likely to eat junk food. So if you control for smoking, activity level, and socioeconomic status great, but you didn't control for junk food.

For example,
Children of Lacto-ovo Vegetarian Families consume less Carbonated Beverages, Ice Cream, Fast Food, and Fried Food in the Seoul Area.

Kyung Ok Shin , Mi Eun Yun , Eun Jung An , Chang Hun An , Kyung Soon Choi and Keun Hee Chung
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Even if vegetarians didn't live longer, most current vegetarians would still be vegetarian because the ethical and environmental issues involved with meat.
That's completely understandable and if they choose to be vegetarian for those reasons, more power to them.

Old 06-10-2013, 10:00 PM
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,418,232 times
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Originally Posted by EugeneOnegin View Post
On average they eat healthier and have healthier lifestyles, but like with any a group there's a large variance in how closely they adhere.
There is going to be variance, yet studying this population removes a good deal of the confounding that would exist in the standard US population.

Regardless, like any single study this study isn't definitive. But it does add to the growing evidence that vegetarians live longer than omnivores, this is by no means the only study with this result. People that wish to eat meat, due to their underlying biases, are naturally going to point out the weakness of each study while ignoring where the science is converging.
Old 06-12-2013, 09:47 AM
Location: Upstate NY
35,196 posts, read 10,402,030 times
Reputation: 33134
I never liked meat and generally don't eat it, but I don't call myself a vegetarian. I just happen to love fruits and vegetables. I don't care for vegetarian "cuisine" and don't like labels anyway. If I'm ordering soup at a restaurant, I don't ask if it's prepared with beef or chicken broth, but I don't want pieces of flesh in it. Though I haven't had one in decades, when I was a kid I had my share of cheeseburgers, but they had to be very well-done and not fighting me on the way down.

I was simply never a fan of meat.
Old 06-22-2013, 05:42 PM
1,862 posts, read 2,996,142 times
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There are fat vegetarians, absolutely. These tend to be those who get their protein from far too much cheese and eggs. Or refried beans, French fries, etc. And if they eat salads, they drown it in calorie rich dressings, like meat eaters. They may also eat a lot of sweets and desserts, again, just like meat eaters. And like a lot of Americans in general, they don't exercise enough. Calories are calories: if you take in in excess of what you burn, you will gain weight.
Old 07-28-2013, 05:50 PM
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 16,441,056 times
Reputation: 8772
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
Bear in mind that a lot of people think cheese is a vegetable. Women put on and retain fat much more easily than men, and if they are eating half a pound of cheese melted over every meal nthinking is is healthy, you can expect them to have more health problems in many cases.
Yes. A being a smart vegetarian takes study. There is a tendency, probably, to load up on carbs and cheese, which are bad.
Old 07-28-2013, 06:35 PM
12,544 posts, read 12,475,698 times
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Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Yes. A being a smart vegetarian takes study. There is a tendency, probably, to load up on carbs and cheese, which are bad.
Ironic, when it's called vegetarianism and folks don't eat their vegetables.

But it can happen to the best of us. I'm guilty of the cheese-covered spud and an enduring love affair with ice cream (which is why I rarely have it in the house). I'd eat them anyway even if I were an omnivore. Just have to remember that not eating meat doesn't mean you can replace it with fattening foods. Ideally, you replace it with beans, legumes, seeds, and nuts, along with your veggies, of course. I'd say the most helpful thing is to learn about different spices. That's really the heart of veggie eating, I think.
Old 07-29-2013, 07:37 PM
108 posts, read 98,701 times
Reputation: 144
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Vegetarians May Live Longer | TIME.com

The article, at the end, says a British study of over 47,000 people did not find the same positive results from a vegetarian diet and it speculates that American vegetarians eat more fiber and vitamin C than do the British.

Interestingly, the investigators also found that the association between vegetarian diets and lower mortality was greater in men than in women. Men had a lower rate of cardiovascular disease and death from heart-related conditions.
Life is 100% fatal. I will NEVER eat dead flesh again, no matter what a stupid study says!
Old 07-30-2013, 05:57 AM
Location: In a house
13,258 posts, read 36,294,001 times
Reputation: 20198
Originally Posted by April Goodwin View Post
Life is 100% fatal. I will NEVER eat dead flesh again, no matter what a stupid study says!
I agree with your first sentence. I *almost* respect your second sentence, except you call a study, written by people who might be smarter than you are, "stupid."

But regardless -

What does your first sentence have to do with the other?

All life is fatal. You *will* die, no matter what you eat, or don't eat. No matter what you try to do to prevent it, or prolong it, some day, you will be dead.


You won't ever eat dead flesh again.

So - will you eat live flesh? Is that what you're trying to tell us? In addition, "dead flesh" means flesh that has necrotized. Last time I saw a steak, it wasn't necrotic. If you mean to say that you won't eat dead animals, I can respect that - but given your first sentence "Life is 100% fatal," are you implying that you would eat an animal alive?

I just don't understand the correlation between "Life is 100% fatal" and "I will never eat dead flesh."

One has nothing to do with the other. They are complete, independent thoughts.
Old 07-30-2013, 01:37 PM
Location: Downtown Raleigh
1,642 posts, read 3,000,669 times
Reputation: 2098
Last time I checked, dead meant no longer alive.

I understood April to say that she would remain a vegetarian even if there were negative implications for her health.
Old 07-30-2013, 01:39 PM
Location: Alaska
4,977 posts, read 4,507,389 times
Reputation: 7168
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I don't get the title of this thread.... The article being cited is of a large study that shows that vegetarians and vegans live longer than non-vegetarians:

"Among a group of 70,000 participants, researchers determined that vegetarians had a 12% lower risk of death compared with nonvegetarians."

The study mentioned briefly at the end doesn't show that vegetarians "don't do well", it just didn't see a difference in morality rates. That could be due to a differences in the groups studied, or it could be due to a difference in the design of the study.

Regardless, so here we have one study that shows vegetarians live longer and another that is neutral....and the conclusion is that some vegetarians don't do well? Don't get it....

With any scientific research, a requirement is a thorough examination into the literature. Oftentimes, review articles are helpful and a beginning into accepting or rejecting a hypothesis.
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